Episode 7: Not your gaytopia

Chase:     Welcome to Neurotakes, I'm Chase.

Courn:     This is Courn. Let's get into it.

Chase:     I don't know about you, but the first time I went to a Pride event, I felt like a dog at a dog park for the first time. Deadass.

Courn:     *Laughs* Why is this your analogy for everything though? It's also your analogy for ADHD, which is so funny!

Chase:     It's always, it's always. It's literally all the time. Cause like it's just, I'm just so excited to see people like me cause obviously I didn't have that at all growing up. And so, it's just like a very exciting time. But I think it was also met with like a little bit of shock of like, oh my gosh, there's a lot of gay people and a lot of like queer people who like are very maybe what I thought was like it kind of extreme, in a way. I was like whoa, and so like there's kind of this mix of like excitement but also being like whoa, a lot of sticker shock, and kind of just like but like try not to be like shameful, but being like whoa, that person is dressed in all leather and wearing a leash and someone is curling-

Courn:     These are my exact thoughts at my first pride.

Chase:     I was like wow, this is, I've never been exposed to this in person, like this close to my face. Like maybe I've seen it in things or heard about it, but like there was that. So there's like the mix. Was that like for you, like in your first pride, were there any similarities?

Courn:     Yeah, I don't remember like the first pride that I actually like attended, but I do remember the first like pride I saw, which was my first year moving up to college to Portland. And of course, Portland has a very big pride parade and walk, but I remember being in my mom's apartment like looking out and clearly people are going by and I'm like, oh my god, what's going on?

Chase:     Cause your mom lived downtown.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     So it was like front row seat.

Courn:     Yeah. They walked right by and I was just like, ooh, what's going on? And we went down there cause we were super excited about literally any activity, we're those people out on the balcony watching.

Chase:     Yeah. Oh, me too. Me too.

Courn:     But I remember just being like, oh, what's going on? And like, clearly, as soon as you see the flags and stuff, you're like, oh, it's June, it's Pride Month. Like, I didn't really have awareness of Pride Month prior to like, I feel like 2015, just because like, I don't know, I wasn't out. And I just didn't really know it was up. But yeah, I had those same thoughts where I was just like, whoa, there's a lot of different dressed people here. But I also remember having so much envy.

Chase:     True!

Courn:     Like, I don't know, my mom was just like, wow, that's really nice for them. And in my head I was like, man, that is REALLY nice for them.

Chase:     Salty over here.

Courn:     I didn't know why I felt so like, oh, like I want to join in. Like I wanted to like, and I kept telling my mom, I was like, oh, let's keep following them. Let's keep watching. My mom was like, I want to go back up. And I'm like, no, I want to keep watching.

Chase:     You're like, look at all these beautiful hotties.

Courn:     Yeah, literally.

Chase:     That's fair.

Courn:     Which I think is funny, cause then I think of like, last year I think was the first time I went and I went with you and your wife, as being a fully out person. And I've been a few times and like watched the parade.

Chase:     Very different experience.

Courn:     Yeah, it was very different. It's almost like felt kind of dystopian for me now.

Chase:     Oooh, do tell!

Courn:     Cause I just like, I feel like I didn't have any insights into the queer community when I first saw Pride. So from the outside, it looked very exciting to me. You see people that are like very queer, very joyful. It's just like, wow, this is like such a big deal. This is such great representation. And then going last year, just looking, I'm like, man, there's just thousands of people, so many white people. And also just the parade in Portland is so weird because it's literally just like a walking rainbow capitalism parade.

Chase:     It's just a big advertisement.

Courn:     Yeah, like there's like whatever affinity groups for like queer police officers. Like imagine having police officers walking in pride. And like, that's one of the very early like parade people that walk by and I'm like... 

Chase:     Yeah, it's like one of the first ones. And I feel like there's also like a lot of hospitals here that do it and they're like associated with churches, which is like, who then do not like, do kind of like gender affirming services and like do all this kind of stuff. So I'm like ohhh...

Courn:     Like, yeah, there's some very weird corporations that have like queer affinity groups walking in them. And it makes me so uncomfortable. It's also just like so busy. Like you can barely see anything. Like, I don't know. I just didn't have that great of a time. It's super overwhelming. Like, I don't know. No one's obviously wearing masks and stuff. It just feels like kind of a hostile place to be. It's loud, there's no bathrooms. I just didn't like it. Like I thought it was cool. It's like, oh yeah, it's exciting being out and dressing up, but I was like, I'm ready to go home once I was there for like a few minutes. 

Chase:    Yeah, I was gonna say, like for the first hour, I feel like I was pretty excited but then like yeah, you're just like oh it's the same stuff, you're just cheering and like wooing, and like okay okay like, here we are, more more groups, more people. Sometimes it's like entertaining and some people like throw out little prizes or candies and you're like okay. But like if you don't want any of those things it is kind of a strange time.

Courn:     Yeah I also just didn't understand because I thought prior to like going formally to Pride in Portland, I thought that like the Pride Walk was always just like people in Portland walking on the streets in a designated route.

Chase:    That's what it should be.

Courn:     Yeah and I'm like I don't know if people join in at the end because I've seen people walk around too but it mostly is like and I don't know if it's different for other cities, but it's like an organized parade with floats for different businesses. So it really isn't about queer people. It's very odd like the most exciting thing you'll see is queer people on the sidelines watching.

Chase:    Oh yeah! Yes.

Courn:     That's more exciting to watch than the actual parade.

Chase:     Yes ,because like how much you don't know how the people in the parade if they're just like allies, they're just wearing rainbow gear to wear rainbow gear, or like their company's like hey we need 10 volunteers, we're gonna pay you 20 bucks and buy you lunch. Who wants in?

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     And they're like, me.

Courn:     Literally.

Chase:     You know, so yeah, but like, you know, the people watching are more likely affiliated. 

Courn:     Yeah, it just felt very weird to me. And I know that that's not like, I don't know, the epitome of pride is like this pride parade, but it feels like it is in Portland like that's a big activity at the end of the month and it's just kind of disappointing. Like, I don't know, we just lost touch with all origins of pride literally being a riot ushered in by Black and brown drag queens like Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, like it was literally the Stonewall uprising against police brutality and here we are having cops-

Chase:     In it!

Courn:     Yes, not only are they like out whatever like mitigating the parade and watching it. They are also literally in it.

Chase:     Yeah. Do you remember if there were Portland police in last year's? Yes. I have a memory disorder, so I don't recall.

Courn:     I don't know if it was the like official PDO.

Chase:     Yes, I remember police being around to obviously kind of like, but, at the same time, I've never seen that and just being like, well, I don't feel any safer. If anything, I feel less safe.

Courn:     Yeah, I know there was all types of first responders and I do believe-

Chase:     Firefighters could be argued either way. Like, OK, but-

Courn:     I'm not gonna get mad at firefighters or paramedics. Those people are great.

Chase:     That's fine. But there's always like Blue Lives Matters within those and like stuff like that. So like, you know, it is kind of strange, especially when you think about like the roots. I was thinking about that the other day of like, how did the Pride Parade even get started? And this is not going to be like an episode on a history lesson, but I was just having the thoughts of like, where did this even start? When, how did it turn into these?

Courn:     Stonewall!

Chase:     But like how did it turn into these brands as to where it did today and like having the parade did at the very beginning was not all of these brands rainbow washed. So like at what point did that start to creep in and then just start taking over, because I feel like even just in the few years I've been out, like it has changed a lot! And I remember being kind of excited like pride came around like, I was so excited to go buy my rainbow stuff and like that's a whole piece and like an experience for people, but like it is really wild to think how fast everything has like kind of spun up and really gotten away from that and like I don't know is it possible to get back to those roots?

Courn:    That's the thing I don't I don't know and I think a lot of it or at least my perception is because of money, like I don't know if you just need a lot of money to put on these events. I don't know who you're paying, the city?

Chase:     That's true! Like maybe, maybe it started as like sponsors for the parade.

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     I don't know. My favorite part of the whole parade is the dykes on bikes. It's always the kickoff of pride. And like, I want more groups like that to be in it. You know, like that's really cool. And I've always, my dream one day is to be a dyke on a bike, ever since my bike got stolen, I like just have a life gogal going but I want to get another one and just be able to be in it and just have like a sports bra and just like a rev my engine and RRR, RRR, RRRR and have like, you know a hottie on the back, my wife! But like like those kind of groups would be really cool to see in Pride more. Not necessarily like you said the police and like all these random corporations. Like maybe corporations who specifically help the LGBTQ community. Sure.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Different story.

Courn:     But for some reason I don't know why Nike's rolling down with this super expensive float. 

Chase:     Why does Alaska Airlines need to have a whole thing?

Courn:     I don't know.

Chase:     Like, you know, Timbers, Thorns, that shit, like the team. Sure, okay, some of that stuff, but like you said-

Courn:     They said ally.

Chase:     A for ally!

Courn:     And I know the people on those floats, most of them are allies just because, I don't know, my spouse's corporation, they also do a float and they asked him like oh do you want to be in it, he would never do something like that because he hates being seen, but I don't know, they just like we have some people on my team did it and I was like are they gay?

Chase:     No.

Courn:     Which I'm like oh I guess that's fun to go win and be in a parade, whatever.

Chase:     My wife's cousin who we are potentially going to visit, unfortunately, he lives in Florida, but their Pride is in October and his hospital that he works for is gonna be in the parade and he's gonna be in it so by proxy. He was like do you want to be in the parade? I was like hell yeah, I do, give me the center of attention! So... 

Courn:     I love that!

Chase:     Maybe go see some photos of me in Orlando pride in a few months!

Courn:     Okay!

Chase:     *sing song hums*

Courn:     Damn, but that's pretty cool!

Chase:     What a confusing overall pride experience. I feel like for something that's supposed to be so supportive and positive and like such a resource, that's like really kind of not become that yeah, it feels like very negative!

Courn:     It also just feels like I don't know. I have a really hard time celebrating pride especially this year, but the past few years just because I mean, we literally have already seen almost 600 anti-trans bills introduced this year alone. We already have 42 that have passed in the US just this year alone in the first 6 months. And it's like they are increasing, and I just feel like not enough people are talking about that. And it's really frustrating.

Chase:     Yeah, that's really what we should be talking about in the month of pride of like, how dangerous and how much like America is still anti LGBTQ in so many ways.

Courn:     Yep, I'm just like the root of pride is literally in trans liberation, yet we're seeing some of the worst bills against trans folks being put by really powerful people, and at the same time big brands are like literally giving money to these politicians, and then also just like making a quick pride line that says like, oh yeah trans joy. While they actively are giving money?

Chase:     Love for all!

Courn:     Yeah, it's just like I don't know that that duality is disgusting to me.

Chase:     And that's a hot take folks. I love it.

Courn:    I don't know if  it's a hot take. Ramble capitalism is just gross because it feels like are you actually, I don't know, like serving a product need or are you just trying to sell stuff to gay people?

Chase:     No, sell. It's that. And unfortunately it kind of works, I'm not gonna lie.

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     I see some rainbow stuff and I'm just like, yeah look at me being represented finally and it's absolutely not that at all in any way shape or form. I don't know, like Target, I used to love their pride stuff. It was so cute and now I haven't set foot in Target in like 2 years. 

Courn:     Well I think especially after last year's debacle!

Chase:     Correct. And stuff like that where it's just kind of like, but it made me realize at the same time I was like wow, I really just bought this because I have been like programmed to think that this is good, just because I see this rainbow and like that's like a signal that it's good but like reality it's not. And then that made me realize a lot of other you know companies and products do the same thing, where I was just like get out of here. What have you actually done for the communities? What, like, are you giving proceeds back? Like, is this, are you offering different services? Like, what do you do? Like, it's no different than, like you said, just put a rainbow logo on and be like, yeah, look at us. We're still in the conversation. It's people inserting themselves when they don't deserve to be.

Courn:     Yeah, and I think it's like hard I think for like people who are early in their queer journey. Like I don't know, it's exciting going to Target for the first time and like picking up a little shirt with a little rainbow flag on it. And like I don't know it's also an accessibility thing too. But also there's so many small queer owned businesses that are like offering better merch at pretty comparable prices.

Chase:     And it's not just tacky rainbows either! Which is fun and we all got a phase of that but like yeah there's way better stuff out there to be buying.

Courn:     I'm like I like rainbow colored things as much as the next person but just like all the cheesy word art that they sell at corporate lines just gets me. It is so bad. 

Chase:     Also not me buying like rainbow stuff as like a tween and a kid. Looking back, it's probably just because I like rainbow, which is true, but also is it because-

Courn:    GAY!

Chase:     Gay.

Courn:     Yeah. Correct.

Chase:     So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty wild. I mean, that reminds me like we talked about the pride parade and just the month of pride in general Like what are your thoughts? What's your take on like the straights and or just like anybody who's not LGBTQ? Being at a parade being in the parade taking part in pride, Like there's some thoughts cuz I think there's some hot takes on either side. Yeah, I think we should dive into it.

Courn:     Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's hard and fast rules to anything. I think anyone should be able to go to Pride. Like I think that's-

Chase:     No, according to us, you cannot go to Pride!

Courn:     That's literally the point. Especially in organizing and stuff-

Chase:     BUT!

Courn:     I'm just like, but it also just feels like there's a limit. Like, I don't know if you're going to be like the leading person on the float. Maybe you should be gay. I know there's no way to like, for me to like clock if you're gay.

Chase:     True. And there's no like way to be like raise your hand if you're gay and you're gonna lead the float, true!

Courn:     Also it's a matter of like not only people that are on the floats, but people were like making the floats, who are organizing the events and stuff. I don't know.

Chase:     Versus like is the allyship and the support from those people necessary to then highlight those types of people and like members of these communities, right? It's like it's kind of a catch, you know, like you said. You can't dictate who goes to what, but like this event is for this community. Like, what's your intention with going and how do you then support those people?

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Right. I think that's always kind of the question with things, because no, you can't tell people where to go and what to do. But like at the same time not everything is for you.

Courn:     No and I think there's a lot of intersections too where it's just like, I don't know, I don't want to just see queer people I want to see queer people of color. I want to see queer disabled people in these parades and the events.

Chase:     Good luck with that.

Courn:     Yeah. Truly. So just like even when I see all these queer people I'm just like, oh they're all white.

Chase:     You're right, it is good to see those intersections and it like that is important and there's probably so many thoughts and reasons as to why that's not the case, right? Like, those people don't show up for a lot of reasons. But again, I don't like, this is the time that we get to like celebrate our identities, when they're not always celebrated and like come together with other people in the community and celebrate. So, I don't know, just be mindful of the space people take up. That's, that's going to be my piece again, not telling you where to go and where to be, but like, just think about your impact for people when like, y'all got 11 months out of the year to be you to be you. We get one!

Courn:     I was going to say, there's a lot of like straight educators that like put out a lot of content for Pride Month, which I'm like, that's cool in some ways, but also, I don't know, I saw that like-

Chase:     But is it detracting from the other people trying to like have a voice? I don't know.

Courn:     Maybe you could amplify other creators, but I did see this one TikTok that obviously everyone is trashing on of this person being like, oh, like I'm queer adjacent. They're like, this is for all the queer adjacent people.

Chase:     Like an ally?

Courn:     Like all my friends are queer. Like they were just saying they were adjacently queer because all their friends are queer. They look like a queer person, which I'm like, whoa, there's some stuff to unpack there. 

Chase:     No, no no!

Courn:      Yeah.

Chase:    Wrong, wrong. Interesting. 

Courn:     But, I don't know. I also just think there's so many levels of privilege in the queer community too. It's just like.

Chase:     That's true. How accessible is some of like the Pride parade stuff? Like how, like is it actually accessible for wheelchairs?

Courn:     No! It's not. That's the thing. Portland Pride is so inaccessible. Like they map out the routes and stuff, but they just like, and this is my critique with all events is when they, Pride, specifically Portland Pride, says stuff like they're disability friendly, they're accessibility friendly, and then half the time they don't, when they do actually list what those accommodations are, they're very limited. They're very limited too to like physical, motion disabilities, which that is a great audience that you should be caring to.

Chase:     A decent portion of the community.

Courn:     Yes, like you should have ramps, you should have wide walkways, you should have bathrooms accessible because lots of people need to use bathrooms but like once you peel back that layer, we're like we don't have interpreters at Portland Pride, interpreting any of the audio or anything that's happening.

Chase:     Wow. I didn't realize!

Courn:     We don't have like, I don't know, any type of like sensory escapes for people who are autistic.

Chase:     Quiet rooms or quiet areas.

Courn:     Yeah! There's just so many ways that you can make an event accessible and like, let's be honest, like you can't make an event accessible to everyone, but like, they can do better!

Chase:     I was gonna say, you sure can improve and make progress towards it.

Courn:     Like everything is so loud there and I understand that's part of it, it's supposed to be loud and overstimulating, but just like as an autistic person, like those types of events are not for me.

Chase:     Can you imagine if we had like a quiet part of the parade where we all just like get really low and celebrate? That would be so cool!

Courn:     Yeah. Some parades have parts, like they're supposed to have like the last like 15 minutes is supposed to be like quieter and stuff, which I've heard that not going well. And then some people just like, well just don't go. And I'm like, okay. Which also like is another point too that I'm like, is a parade the ultimate epitome of like what a disabled person would like to do?

Chase:     To celebrate.

Courn:     Yeah, like to me that feels kind of like an afterthought. I'm like, I think there's a lot of ways we could get involved in smaller groups and smaller activities where we can be at more accessible places. Like, can we make this digital? Can we make this online? Is there a way to get people who are involved who cannot come? But I don't know, I think the biggest miss for me is like in the official Pride events, nothing is masked and we have these high, really high packed areas of people, and like there's not a bigger red flag to me than saying I hate disabled people, than not requiring masks at a very large function.

Chase:     Especially at something that has like higher intersectionality of things.

Courn:     Correct! Like I can't make up how ironic in a really disheartening way that I'm like these events are supposed to be accessible for all, they're not accessible for the most marginalized people and they know that. They're getting called out. I do want to call out because people have told me that there's an event called Rad Pride in Portland, R.A.D. That apparently is a full masked Pride event.

Chase:     That's cool.

Courn:     And I'm like, that seems cool.

Chase:     We'll link them in the show notes. No, that's all really good points. I think a lot of the episode today is going to be around like rainbow washing and just circling back to that. Like should we maybe do an explanatory comment as to what that is for folks? Do you think people know?

Courn:     Yeah, I mean I there's I also hear pink washing and rainbow washing used interchangeably. They're kind of like similar, different meanings based on what I looked up. But the definition I do know of like pinkwashing is like using an entity's like perceived notion of like gay friendliness to like distract from other harmful things they're doing. And I've noticed that some definitions of rainbow washing don't necessarily include that last part about distraction. Like it could just be like, we're using queerness to sell something when it doesn't actually have any like deepness to it. Like there's not actually-

Chase:    A version of virtue signaling, I believe, right?

Courn:     Yes. And It's really bad this year because I mean we're literally having the Israeli government say that, oh we are the gaytopia and Palestinians are anti-gay so this is exactly why we are killing them. 

Chase:     This is why we have the right.

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:    We're in the in the good position!

Courn:     Yeah, there's a literal genocide against Palestinian people and Israel's over here like, oh yeah but we're gaytopia, pride! The marketing right now that is coming out of the Israeli government is so freaking insane, like it makes me not want to celebrate pride because it is so disgusting. And I'm like, queer Palestinians exist. We understand cultural norms are different everywhere but no, Israel is not a gay-topia. Nowhere is a gay-topia, that is such a weird thing to perpetuate.

Chase:     Yeah, that's weird. I mean it's a great point. I feel like this is also the first year I have felt a lot of ics around pride and like normally, I like the for the first couple days of pride I like wear some gay shirts or wear like a little rainbow stuff, just to be like cutesy and fun cuz like that time a year. It's like the one time I do that. But like this year, I literally could not have cared less and had zero interest. And I feel like that says a lot about the world we're living in and the, like the outlook for LGBTQ community right now.

Courn:     Yeah. Like to me it feels very similar to like 2020 in that same way, where I think people came into pride being like, oh, it isn't just about being celebrating gays, it's about being the intersection of being Black and gay, and how that is deeply ingrained to the history of pride, but also just how that's a missing part of so many pride celebrations. And I think we're seeing that this year with just like, I don't know, all these white queer influencers being so excited about celebrating pride and just feeling so tone deaf in that they're not talking about Palestine. They're not talking about the Congo. They're not talking about Sudan.

Chase:     The world is burning and we're over here like America's over here. Like look at our rainbows. Like, ooh.

Courn:     And it's also very intentional that it's like the worlds of Black and brown people are burning and it's just being purposely ignored-

Chase:     Because again they're like, just look at here, look over, here look at our rainbow, look at us we-

Courn:     Look at these happy white queer people!

Chase:     There's nothing bad happening over here! Don't look at legislation in congress no no no look at us in the rainbow, weeeee!

Courn:     Yeah, so it just feels like this pride, and I think every pride that is rooted in rainbow capitalism is gonna feel like it's a distraction from bigger problems like anti-trans bills, from genocides, from conflicts and wars that are happening across the world. But this year, it's just, I don't know, it's just hidden different for a lot of people. I think I'm a lot more aware than I was this year than I was prior that it just feels like weird to celebrate. I don't know.

Chase:     It does feel weird. Off the top of your head, do you have any ways or things that you know of that would make it feel less weird?

Courn:     I don't know, just having an intersectional approach, which I think we should be doing for Pride anyway.

Chase:     Even a more historical approach.

Courn:     Yeah, like I think I'm seeing a little bit more of a historical approach in recent years. Like I'm definitely seeing a lot of people, I think some people kind of like virtue signal sometimes with like Stonewall and like talking about like Marsha P. Johnson and people, but like that history is super important to talk about. You should center it in your pride celebrations, that this isn't just some random celebration of gay people. Like it was literally Black and brown drag queens who got us the right to celebrate. But I think just in particularly the case of like Palestine, Congo, Sudan, like putting that in your advocacy, like queer people exist everywhere. I think there's a way to interlace all these topics like very easily.

Chase:     Absolutely.

Courn:     Like, I don't know. I don't think it's like a hard and fast rule. How can you be intersectional? But just like consider this.

Chase:     Like, It just reminds me of how like Hawaii typically celebrates Queen Liliuokalani and like different things relating to her life. Like there's a parade, there's like a not a parade, but there is like a march but it's like so, so much more nowadays, I don't know how it was previously, but like rooted in like the historical education piece of like getting exposure and like teaching people a lot more about the overthrow and like what she did for the Hawaiian kingdom and like that kind of stuff and like that would be really cool if we brought that back because. Yeah, it's always fun to celebrate and like have these parades and gatherings but like that cannot be the central movement in piece, that should be like a little facilitator to like the other main pieces at least my opinion on that.

Courn:     Agree! I think too there's just a lot of focus too on like a parade or a walking event being like the big thing about Pride.

Chase:     God, there's so much more to life and the celebration of that.

Courn:     I think that's what just gets all the footage, but I'm just like I don't know, I want to see maybe other places are doing this, but I'm like I want to see partnerships with like museums, like having historical exhibits on pride and like we don't have a lot of that-

Chase:     Highlight different businesses and experiences and services!

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     If you are gonna spend your money, or maybe give it for free!

Courn:     Yeah and I know there's some like a lot of like really great like queer events in Portland leading up. Some of them are not so great for disabled people. A lot of them are in small janky bars without elevators. And without like bathrooms that are accessible. But I don't know. I just think we should be-

Chase:     It also feels like it would be a lot safer if it was in businesses to a degree. I do worry about some like safety at the parade. Like I'm not gonna lie, my head's on a swivel half the time because I'm like, this is a large concentration of people. 

Courn:     And there's cops there too!

Chase:     That's what I'm saying is like just because the cops are there I don't feel any safer. So like sometimes like that kind of stuff makes me nervous versus like oh hey at this one place we're gonna have this gathering you know it's like a little bit more secluded and private.

Courn:     I mean yeah but I mean-

Chase:     Not ,it's not a for sure protected!

Courn:     Historically we know that a lot of queer businesses are you know obviously the target of hate crimes and acts of white terrorism. 

Chase:     Everything sucks. Yeah nothing. 

Courn:     It does. It feels like nowhere safe especially just like as a Black and brown queer person I think that's amplified. 

Chase:     True. That's true. So if you're listening to this, amplify intersectional queers, not just the white ones.

Courn:     Yeah, well I think a lot of people just think these experiences like exist like in spite of each other or like in separate bubbles like, oh this is the queer part of me. This is the Asian part of me. This is the autistic part of me. These are all so intertwined. They're so incredibly relevant to each other. And we do such a disservice when we look at queerness through the lens of just whiteness, which that's what we look at when we see rainbow washing. It is always through a white lens, like...

Chase:     Yeah that's a great point.

Courn:     We miss out on so much. It's sad!

Chase:     But that's why we're here making this podcast so y'all don't miss out on it as much.

Courn:     Yeah please don't.

Chase:     Please keep listening.

Courn:     Please please.

Chase:    Smash that subscribe button.

Courn:     That actually hurts me. I think what frustrates me as a queer person who also does a lot of art for pride campaigns, for organizations for Pride Month, is just how superficial that support is. Like last year I got asked to make a line of stuff for a very popular brand and my whole thing was rooted in it being like a queer family, like a queer connection, things like that. And they dropped me. And I thought, they told me that, oh, we are reevaluating every single partnership just because it's that time of the year we're redoing leadership. And then when all this stuff went live.

Chase:    Plot twist. It wasn't that!

Courn:     In December, I went to see that I was the one artist out of the six people who was dropped. The only queer person dropped. And they made it sound like, oh, we dropped multiple people.

Chase:    Nope.

Courn:     And this is like coming out of, you know, we've seen so many major brands like drop and get rid of and redact pride lines. Like we saw that trans shirt getting redacted from Target and we're seeing similar things coming up with Target in the news again with a mutual on Instagram, the Peach Fuzz Co. They actually had their whole line pretty much dropped from Target and now they're having to sell everything. So you should check out their Instagram if you want to buy merch from an actual queer person who's selling queer merch.

Chase:    Absolutely. Again, we'll drop it in the show notes.

Courn:     Yeah, but almost their entire target pride line this year has been moved online and largely just doesn't exist. Like they dropped half the artists and then everything right now is online. I think there's like a few participating stores across the whole U.S. who are selling pride stuff, which is just such a testament to I think how superficial this rainbow capitalism is. Because the moment they got pushback from quite frankly like, extremists, from extreme people, like they gave into that they said okay, these people are right we're not going to offer this in store, it's too much work for us to have!

Chase:     We're going to lose so much profit by having this, we're going to lose x support from so and so if we push this out.

Courn:     Yeah. And it's not just like super exploitative of all these queer artists. It's honestly really freaking dangerous. Like that they are so easily influenced by.

Chase:     It just takes one maybe threat of just like something and then-

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     And the whole line gets pulled.

Courn:     Yeah, it's like are we giving into homophobia that easily like that is such a-

Chase:     It's that threatening! Yeah, y'all were that threatening, we got that much power!

Courn:     Truly! But I'm just like-

Chase:     That's terrible, it's really shitty!

Courn:     Even us talking in this episode of like going and getting a shirt from Target that has a pride thing on it-

Chase:     No more.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Yeah. No, 

Courn:     We might be one of the cities that maybe has it, but. 

Chase:     Oh, I mean, we don't even have any targets left in the city. I gotta go all the way up to like the airport almost. Like it's a 20 to 30 minute drive for a target around here.

Courn:     Honestly, Target kind of sucks. I get it's accessible shopping for some people but-

Chase:     Haven't gone in a long time.

Courn:     I can afford to shop better so I do not buy things there anymore.

Chase:     You can afford to shop better because your partner works for a grocery conglomerate and you get a discount. I'm just kidding. 

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     I'm just kidding.

Courn:     Yeah that 10% off.

Chase:     I'm kidding.

Courn:     Fair enough. I'm also just like, I don't know. I feel like people should be able to do their own research. Like they can find small businesses that sell stuff. Like queer people are everywhere. They're selling their artwork 24-7, all year round. You can buy it not on Pride Month. I'm one of those people.

Chase:     Ayo. Yeah. Is it still Courtney Ahn Design?

Courn:     It is!

Chase:     Uooh, that makes me feel so weird to say.

Courn:     I know. I've had the handle for so long that I can't really like-

Chase:     I mean you got merch on Candy Courn.

Courn:     I do. It's also through Courtney Ahn Design.

Chase:     Oh.

Courn:     Yikes.

Chase:     All right, folks. I'm going to go start a riot. Do you know? Do you get it? 

Courn:     I got it.

Chase:     See you!

Courn:     Bye!

Chase:     Hey, folks. A quick disclaimer here, Courn and I speak directly from our own experiences, and while we try our best to amplify marginalized voices and present accurate information, the thoughts expressed here are definitely not a reflection of all neurodivergent, AAPI, or queer folks. So, if you have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts, feel free to email us at hello@neurotakespod.com. Thanks!