Episode 3: Fruit snacks in a conga line

Chase:     Hey folks, welcome back to Neurotakes. I'm Chase.

Courn:     And this is Courn.

Chase:     Let's get into it. Courn, why did the scientist think his microscope had ADHD?

Courn:     Uhhh....I really want to guess it, but I can't. So why?

Chase:     Because it couldn't focus. *laughs loudly*

Courn:     *sighs* I feel like I haven't heard like any ADHD jokes, or like, or larger like autism jokes or neurodivergent jokes at all.

Chase:     Yeah? really?

Courn:     This is something I need to look into. This sounds great. Oh my god. 

Chase:     Focusing is not always the easiest thing.

Courn:     Yeah. 

Chase:     As someone with ADHD, it's very... just all you think about is, squirrel! I'm just kidding.

Courn:     Every stereotype-

Chase:     the stupid stereotypes.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Ohhhh.

Courn:     I feel that. I think I have a lot of issues with focus, but also I think I have more issues with task switching and I don't know if that resonates with you, but I just feel like once I start something and I'm into it we're finishing it whether that's an hour or 8 hours-

Chase:     Or 8 days!

Courn:     Yeah that's true, I'm, I'm taking my whole life on the line for this random task which has no relevance to my life.

Chase:     But it feels so relevant in the moment.

Courn:     Yes!

Chase:     Yeah. Okay folks, well if you get if you couldn't guess this whole episode is about being late diagnosed adults with ADHD and autism.

Courn:     *woops*

Chase:     I have ADHD. Courn, what you got?

Courn:     I got autism and ADHD, so we got some crossover, but yeah.

Chase:     We do. My wife has ADHD and autism so I feel like we're gonna have some shared experiences in that way of like being in a relationship with someone in that way. 

Courn:     Oh yeah. And I don't think I've ever told you that whatever my spouse has ADHD.

Chase:     You've never mentioned that?

Courn:     Really?

Chase:     News flash.

Courn:     It runs in his entire family. So no, he's not diagnosed, but all the siblings are. And quickly as I went down the route of discovery yeah he very much has ADHD, so I I guess as people both having partners that are like also on the neurodivergent spectrum and things like that, like how do you feel that like, I don't know, post-diagnosis has affected your relationship? Has it strengthened it? Has it challenged it. I'm always curious to hear from other people.

Chase:     Yeah. I think we just like we talked in like the first episode, there was a moment, or there's like a period of each where at first you like kind of, I definitely noticed some things in our relationship and was like it's kind of unexplainable or I was like oh I don't really, that doesn't make like total sense, but again I love my wife very much, it was just like it's not a big deal, and it's just a quirk-

Courn:     No, we're not just a quirk, friends!

Chase:     It's not, it's not! But I definitely was like huh that's different than what I was maybe expecting or used to. So, and then we like, I feel like once we got the diagnosis kind of it got probably like more challenging because like we unmasked, but now I feel like we're at a really good spot where we understand a lot more about each other and each other's impacts and have definitely found more ways to support each other. We are by no means like perfect and have everything down. There's a lot of times it's still like we'll come up and then we have to like pause and be like, okay, I think this is what's happening. Like, we just need to take a moment. So there's definitely a lot of ways it's impacted us. I think we should, yeah, we should go into it. Do you feel like, how do you feel like it impacted your relationship since you've been in your relationship for a lot longer than my wife and I?

Courn:     Yeah, no, I think a lot of it and I don't know if I touched on this on the intro episode, but I was just talking about how much it explained things that I did and I think it maybe made my spouse maybe feel like, oh, like they're not just lazy or really bad at things. Like, I don't know. I just got to the point where I couldn't cook for myself. I couldn't do a lot of stuff around the house and I felt really, really guilty about it. And I still think there's things I probably should have done to make it more even. But I also think it just helped them understand where I was coming from and allow us to like, I don't know, better divvy up tasks. Cause I think that was always the cause of a lot of our arguments. Like I know we've been together so long. We've been through so many living situations that a lot of it was just as we got older, we started realizing, ah shit, we got to cook every night. We have to take out the dogs, you know, 5 times a day. We have to take out the trash. We have to pull the weeds in the yard-

Chase:     Laundry, vacuuming, sweeping!

Courn:     Like, yes. And I feel like our accommodations that kept getting bigger. I felt like we got more responsibilities and I wasn't ready to freaking take that on. And we got in arguments all the freaking time. And I think now having discovered that I'm autistic and knowing the limits of the things that I can or can't do sensory wise, it's been really helpful because it's just been, point blank, I expressed to Raymond a few years ago that I could not cook anymore. It was such a pain point of mine. And I was like, if you handle cooking, I will do almost all the cleaning. And like, I like cleaning, it's relaxing for me.

Chase:     Okay.

Courn:     So I'm like, that's a task that I could do. Like obviously there's still stuff we split up. But I think it just helped a lot I think with like I don't know establishing our strengths and not just like thinking the other one was lazy. And I think too with me knowing now that he has ADHD, the ways that I would get mad at him when he forgot to do things, or couldn't do things as well, or to the standard of cleanliness I had. I think I have a lot more compassion and understanding.

Chase:     And you don't take it maybe as personally, right?

Courn:     Yes, I think I used to take everything as a personal attack but I'm just like, oh, I was like, oh, you're always, you know, weaponizing incompetence against me. You're purposely loading the dishwasher wrong because, you know, you hate me.

Chase:     I mean, he's a cis man. I'm just kidding.

Courn:     No, it's true. So I go back and forth, but I'm just like having known that I'm just like, oh no, quite literally, he has to be told multiple times to do something. He has to do it when he wants to do it and like having more patience for that. I think it's helped both of us. Doesn't mean it's freaking easy. I mean I think we still get in our fair share of spats and stuff. I think that's normal and healthy. I don't know.

Chase:     Yeah I think there's a certain amount of like healthy arguments couples and or relationships should have but yeah it's also like how you're moving through those and then away from those I think that says a lot.

Courn:     Yeah, I'm also just like if you're fighting about the little things I think that's usually like a better sign.

Chase:     I agree!

Courn:     -than the big things, I don't know!

Chase:     Yeah, if you're fighting about like money spending like values and rights to people's bodies then yeah that's a triple red flag!

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     -but yeah if you're like hey can you do the dishes I've asked you 3 times and you're just fighting about that. Hopefully that's not rooted in anything too serious. That's a good point.

Courn:     Do you feel like it had an impact on any of your friendships? I know you mentioned having a discovery process with a lot of your friends, but like did it make you lose friends? Because I know it did for me.

Chase:     Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean I've always, I think throughout my life, have naturally cycled through friends quite quickly. Whether that was related to the ADHD or anything else like in life, who's to say? And we could do a whole episode on that. But so to me, I think when I was like in this new cycle of like friends while getting diagnosed and like afterwards, I didn't really think much of it. What I think I noticed now is like making new friends, or like introducing new people into my life, and like my wife and I's life. Then that's I think where it shows up more! Or what's even I think more challenging is maybe people who I like knew before getting diagnosed, big long hiatus, talking you know maybe even like three, five, six, 10 years, then now it's like reintroducing completely different person, completely different needs, a different way of talking and like organizing and like that I feel like it's been really tough.

Courn:     Oh yeah, I especially think you just have like I don't know people already have a preconceived. I don't know, notion of what you're like and suddenly you come back and it's completely different-

Chase:     Yeah, especially if like you have maybe like a friendship previously that was built on certain values or things that were important like ways of doing things. Like if you're like in the past, maybe if I had like a very impulsive friend or like we just did a lot of stuff that didn't require a lot of planning. I was like, so fun, it was cool. And like, I was probably single and like I was probably a lot younger. So like different amounts of responsibility in life. And now like, for lack of a better word, I don't have that luxury. In a way of like, there's so many of the things that I choose to prioritize and make important where I can't just drop everything all the time and go do something. I need a few days notice to make some plans. Especially if it's plans that involve my wife and I. For me, I can like pivot a little bit quicker. The impulsiveness is like pretty fun for my ADHD brain, but not for my wife. No, no. My cousin came to town and gave me this like 3 or 4 days notice and I was like, oh, oh boy. So we like, okay, made some dinner plans and then it was like oh we're gonna go wine tasting, you you like you should totally come, like cause they're just trying to be inclusive and be all cool. But like I was like we work-

Courn:     Autistic pain!

Chase:     Yeah also we need to research this place before!

Courn:     Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!

Chase:     Or then it'll be a couple days like oh we're gonna go the mountain, like you're totally welcome to come, like you should come or something. It's like yeah okay, okay, okay, same thing. Hey we're gonna go do this. I'm like this is like four times y'all, you need to pick a day, should have picked it last week and then we'd be good to go. So I think that like friendship wise, yeah, super tough. But-

Courn:     Yeah, I feel very similarly. I'm just like, I don't know. Obviously I didn't have a lot of friends in the first place. I've never been great at that. But I do feel like instead of cycling through friends, I would find a friend that I'm like, man, this friend is gonna be my everything! And that-

Chase:     YES!

Courn:     And looking back, I'm realizing that, oh, I did this pattern. Like I had the same best friend all elementary school then they would drop me and I have to find someone new and like I had the same really close best friend for the past like 10 years and I would say like I don't think, we start drifting apart I think before even like I got on my discovery process, but I think it definitely widened the gap. And they were totally cool about that stuff. They were definitely on their own journey as well, into trying to get autism and ADHD discovery. But we quickly realized as soon as we weren't living together and weren't accessible to hang out all the time that really neither of us could actually like, I don't know, take the initiative to start plans and make time. And when that wasn't mutual and like I couldn't reach them, It just fell apart and it felt so freaking shitty. And I realized that so much of our friendship was like based on spontaneity. And like, they definitely had a lot of like ADHD personality types of just like wanting to do things at all times and like, oh, let's go try this and do that. And I just was tired all the time. I could not do those things. And as soon as I expressed, I couldn't do those things anymore, we had no reason to hang out anymore. And I think that's what hurts. I think realizing that maybe you're not compatible with friends that you really wanted to be to. And that's not to say that I think friends can't like make adjustments and like you both work in the middle so you can, I don't know, meet each other somewhere in a common place? But yeah, it just wasn't mutual and it's really hard to make new friends. Like I think you're probably my closest friend at the moment.

Chase:     AY AY AY!

Courn:     And we reconnected and I think that helped a lot cause I'm like, man, I haven't really made any new friends in the last 5 years. It's weird.

Chase:     Yeah. It is. Well, I'm curious to like pick your brain about why you think that's weird. Because for me, I mean, I left a cult. So I literally left all of my like social structures and relationships but I also coming from, I don't know, I did have a lot of friends through the church and then like I was a pretty social kid so like there's that. And so like now it is it would, I definitely went through a phase where I was like really like self-conscious and likes almost like kind of panicked at like not having a lot of friends because again I lost my entire like familial structure, but like now what like making friends obviously is tough but like not only is it tough because of the layer of ADHD and autism, but I think where you are you and I are each at in our awareness of that and how it impacts our lives is key. Because like the early diagnose is different than like kind of where we're at now like years later knowing how we kind of have to navigate it together. Because I think at the beginning, it would have been completely different. Like even if we just reconnected a year earlier

Courn:     Right!

Chase:     It might be completely different. It might not be the same now. So do you feel like it was weird at some points making like losing or making friends now? Is it weird to make friends now?

Courn:     I don't know if it's weird but I just like don't know where people make friends. Like I don't know if it's just I have a unique challenge or privilege in that like I work from home so I don't see anyone on a daily basis and it's I feel like it's a weird border to like friend clients if they're paying me money. 

Chase:     Oh yeah. 

Courn:     Even though I've met some clients that I'm like oh you're so cool. 

Chase:     Friends outside of clients is strange. 

Courn:     Yeah. But I'm like, I shouldn't cross that line.

Chase:     It's it's an interesting one.

Courn:     I think for me, the hard thing is just been like, I don't know. I think you touched on like re introducing yourself as having all these identities with people who knew you prior. And I think that's such a reason why I don't clash well with a lot of my family members now. Once they have a preconceived notion of you, if you start adding all these factors in that feel like out of nowhere for them, but are actually quite consistent for you.

Chase:     Yeah. So like regular, typical-

Courn:     And it's just like, I don't know, I don't have the time to re-educate people if they're not willing to put in time for me anymore.

Chase:     Yeah, absolutely. 

Courn:     And so I just feel like new friends are like the solution. Like I have to start fresh and I think it's easier. I don't know, people, obviously so much of my life is online too, so I think people know my values. So they're like, oh, I know what I'm getting into if I approach Courn which I think also makes a lot of people not want to freaking talk to me!

Chase:     Double-edged sword!

Courn:     Yeah. like they think I'm gonna be like, I don't know, some like activist who's just like gonna judge every single little thing you do and I'm just like yeah I have pretty strong morals.

Chase:     Nothing is good enough!

Courn:     Yeah, and I'm just like I'm just a dink over here okay. How do people make friends honestly?

Chase:     Making friends as an adult is always strange and like, I've heard that, I think you've heard that, but like yeah you add the extra layer of like our brains are not like, well they don't work the same way that like, let's say that the rest of the world does, like neurotypical, so that is that is definitely complicated! You even mentioned like taking initiative to like make plans. Like that's even like the hard, like that's like such a hard like hurdle and piece to overcome that like most people would kind of be upset by that. Like, why don't you ever make plans or like you never reach out to me or like, right? Like that. So like without having those conversations and then hopeful that those people even are accepting of that of like, oh it's nothing personal, like if you like I will always say, yes you just got to reach out to me first ,but like it's nothing personal, I just like really struggle to like initiate making plans. People could still be like, screw you! And then like you know and like then wow okay I don't want to be friends with someone who's not going to meet my needs either, so. 

Courn:     It's also hard too, because I feel like I didn't know what these norms were for friendship, like I think as I went through therapy, I realized I was a bad friend in some ways that I think were like non-intentional that I think some were attributed to autistic traits, some I just didn't know, like I didn't realize that I had to it had to be 50-50 initiative to initiate plans and that seems very obvious now in hindsight but I didn't know that I just assumed if a friend always invited me out they would keep doing that and I think that was like poor of me to assume.

Chase:     Interesting. I wonder where that assumption came for you.

Courn:     I don't know I just thought like, oh I didn't want to bother someone, like it felt rude to like-

Chase:     Is that a trauma though?

Courn:     Oh yes.

Chase:    Because I feel like that's another layer of like the traumas, like can also be mistaken for some of the things but-

Courn:     Agree!

Chase:     We definitely can talk about that in another episode!

Courn:     Yeah, but I think there's just some social norms to I didn't get attached of just like, oh, I need to keep in contact with someone!

Chase:     Do you think if someone had told you those things at some point you would have like upheld that?

Courn:     I mean probably because I love following the rules.

Chase:     But someone had to tell you those things.

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:     Not like you maybe watched behaviors and then like assumed that this is what you do.

Courn:     Yes. I think I just made like a lot of assumptions about and I've never been great at socializing with other people and I realized I was like, oh man, I'm talking too much about myself. Am I asking them enough questions? Which has always made me feel like I just was a chronically bad freaking friend. And like, I don't think anyone's like the superb friend that's the best shiny example. But like, it definitely made me reflect I don't know, in ways I could be a better friend while, I don't know, still advocating for my needs and stuff. Like I now will initiate plans, but you know, like I need detailed plans if we're doing something. I also can't be the one in charge of making those details because I get too overwhelmed.

Chase:     How many times have we gone back and forth trying to pick a location for our plans?

Courn:     Literally both of us, I don't mind!

Chase:     Oh we could go here, we could go. Not me in the past sending five different coffee places and being like, do any of these sound good?

Courn:     Yes. 

Chase:     And you're like, all of them. And I was like *sighs*!

Courn:     But also that's why I literally love you because you just I don't know you were so quick to, like you were like one of the first friends I think I reconnected with, and I think honestly the only one who still like constantly checks in with me about stuff and it's just like, oh like should I look into it like? Should we do that? Or like is that too much? And I'm just like I don't know, I'm just like, man that makes such a world of difference. Like , I want to be that for other friends and I don't know, hopefully I'm starting to be that for you, but yeah.

Chase:      I feel like we're doing good organizing this podcast, like very mutually.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Just picking spots. Here's what we're doing this time. All right. Boom.

Courn:     I just need a solid plan. I'll be there.

Chase:     That's a solid friend. That's a dependable friend. And that's, you don't get that much these days-

Courn:     No that's you! That's what makes our-

Courn:     Pat your back!

Chase:     that's what, *pats back and woops* that's what makes it work.

Courn:     Teamwork makes the dream work. 

Chase:     With a dream team. Chase and Courn.

Courn:     *in sing song* Chasing Courn through the cornfields!

Chase:     Looking for those corn dogs. Okay, we divulged. There's some ADHD. You mentioned like cycling through friendships and I do want to touch on that because I did not realize that that was such a like ADHD trait. I thought it was just a me outgrowing my friends.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     That's not at all what it is. Like the excitement, I guess, I don't know, dopamine rush of like a potential new friend.

Courn:    Yeah.

Chase:     We got to talk about that.

Courn:     Oh, it's so much. I just feel like, I don't know, I would like hyperfixate and like some of my friends, I'm sad to admit that I felt like they became my special interests. Like I wanted to know everything about them.

Chase:     All of my, like, yes, yes. Looking back, that was exactly how I like lived.

Courn:     It also was like a little fruity too, the way I was obsessed with some of my close friends growing up.

Chase:     Same, same! Some of those girls I was like, oh I could totally drop some snacks off at your house.

Courn:     Yeah. 

Chase:     I'm gonna ride my bike over!

Courn:     But then also me meeting someone new then I'm just like, oh you feel like you could be a better friend? And that was toxic of me because I think that was my inner monologue like I felt like I upgraded friends when I got dropped.

Chase:     Oh yeah and I, you know I wonder how much of that like rejection sensitivity also plays into like wanting to upgrade a friend because I remember looking back for sure I had friends like that where I felt like I like moved on to like more popular friends, and like kind of like kept moving through the social structure. One, I was like a pretty poor kid, so I felt like I was kind of an outcast in certain things. But-

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:      I wonder if it's actually tied to ADHD. Yeah, like reject, rejection sensitivity and if I was like friends with someone who's popular enough then they wouldn't reject me because I was friends with a popular person.

Courn:     Yup.

Chase:     Yup. Damn, that just unraveled my whole brain.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Rip. I'm having therapy sessions. Yeah, but like the cycle of a new friend, like It's so exciting. It's like a hyper fixation because it's one, it's so much dopamine. My wife teases me all the time. It's like being a dog at a dog park. They get so excited to see each other and they're like, and running around. That's how it feels. That sheer, huge surge of the good feeling chemicals in your brain that make you feel good and that you almost forget that you've had in previous friendships maybe and then you're just like, oh my god, that's great! And then you're just like I just want to do this again it's like the rat hitting the button, right I'm hitting the kind of cocaine button so and then you like fixate on that relationship or that friendship so hard. You do everything with them all the time. And you're always talking to them and like thinking about it.

Courn:     And then something happens.

Chase:     Yeah. And then it's like world destroyed.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     World destroyed when really like nothing serious happened.

Courn:     No. It could be something really small. Just friendship is just gone.

Chase:     Or like they canceled or plans last minute.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     And then you're just like, well, maybe this person doesn't like me. Maybe it's like, I don't want to talk to him. I'm going to take three days to reply because like, I don't want to get hurt again. Yeah, dude. I can't believe that was all ADHD.

Courn:     I was like, too, at least for me too, like I don't know, I didn't resonate with a lot of kids because I was kind of weird for lack of a better word to say. So I also just feel like when I resonated with someone, it was a freaking big deal.

Chase:     That's a good point!

Courn:     Like, I don't know, I've only had, I mean, I think that's probably more than some people, but I feel like I've had like four good best friends in my life. And like, I had never met other people like this before that I resonated with. So like, in my mind, I was like, why wouldn't my world revolve around this person?

Chase:     Yeah. And then you throw in the layer again of like, maybe like traumas and being almost like an easily targeted person and so then you get like these toxic friendships because they're like either narcissists or like really unhealthy toxic people who then become friends with these like vulnerable people, and you don't even know you're vulnerable at that time, but like easily to take advantage of and I feel like that was a lot of my friendships were like, yeah I did become friends with a popular person because I worshipped them. They loved that and they're like they got off on like having someone follow them around-

Courn:     I've heard people talk about like saying that like narcissistic people like seek out a lot of like autistic ADHD people a lot of people who have like PTSD and trauma related to relationships-

Chase:     Yeah!

Courn:     Like they can identify it, and I don't know I just like I always got targeted too by mean people, like they knew they could just take an advantage of me and that I would just be a simp for our friendship, is that a cool world, cruel cool world to say, cool word, to say cruel...

Chase:     Is it because you're Asian and you can't say words?

Courn:     No.

Chase:     If y'all listened to the last episode you'd know what we're talking about!

Courn:     I have bad pronunciation, you know sometimes we edit it out, sometimes we don't!

Chase:     That's okay!

Courn:     Is that a cool word?

Chase:     You're saying cool, as in C-O-O-L?

Courn:     Yes!

Chase:     Oh not cruel, like C-R-U-E-L.

Courn:     Yes!

Chase:     What's a cool word? 

Courn:     Simp? Simp, I don't know if that's like cringy I'm technically still Gen Z.

Chase:     I think simp is okay, yeah is that PC to say? I think simp is using like a negative term.

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     But I think I know what you mean.

Courn:     I don't think it's based on a cultural thing. I feel like words that are like specifically like I don't know Black vernacular or gay vernacular, like.

Chase:     Oh I thought, hold on now, I'm like the simp stand for, does it, is simp short for something?

Courn:     Right I think it is, it's like a man simping and he's simping for no reason Like he's simping over a woman who's, yeah...

Chase:     Okay, well, there's our ADHD tangent going off back from people taking advantage of folks because they're easy to take advantage due to their brains literally just working so much differently.

Courn:     Yeah, I think it's also just I don't know I always assume the best in people too because I generally want to...

Chase:     Naive.

Courn:     Yeah, I generally just thought that most people like me just wanted to get along with people.

Chase:     I mean that should be the motto for a lot of stuff.

Courn:     Yeah, I am very naive and I'm very open about that. It is what it is.

Chase:     I feel like my wife talks about being naive in some things and I wonder if it's like a tism related thing. I mean I can't speak for it but0

Courn:     I think it's also like a double-edged sword too where it's like I don't know people also put false stereotypes that like people on the spectrum are like oh more innocent, unaware, never lie, and just like so pure and like yes there's so much like I don't know like child-

Chase:     Right! What do they call, there's a term for that when you're like-

Courn:     Infantilization of autistic people and assuming that all autistic people have the purest motives like we know autism spectrum, there's bad autistic people, there's good autistic people. Assuming that they all have the brain of children, I think is demeaning. But I'm also just like, there's plenty of autistic people who also have intellectual disabilities and I don't think it's kind to them either.

Chase:     It's not one or the other.

Courn:     No, I think it's just like a false extreme.

Chase:     You know what's another thing that I did not realize was tied to ADHD? It's choice paralysis. I have been that way for as long as I can remember being given too many choices and then just like freezing and it wasn't really like apparent until I was honestly 21-ish I don't know maybe like going out to bars stuff but like it took me forever to pick something from the menu and I would always get the same thing because of that. As a kid I would always get like the same chicken sandwich and orange soda or something. But yeah now it's so apparent. Choice paralysis is so strong. Which I guess is tied to what like executive dysfunction in a way.

Courn:     I feel like I resonate to that a lot. I also have like pretty bad choice paralysis but also partially I'm just like I don't know the autistic side of me also likes to research everything. So I get stuck in loops of over researching, where then you do too much research and you find out that there's no good option and that every option is equally neutral, which then I can't make a choice. Which makes really small, like, I don't know, insignificant decisions like, I don't know, something like picking a pair of shoes, could take me up to a year to commit to. 

Chase:     I didn't even, like, I didn't know that that was like a struggle. I didn't know other people just like look at shoes and be like, yeah, that's fine. And just pick them.

Courn:     There's so many factors to consider. Which is why here I am on eBay buying the same pair of discontinued leather vans and I have now exhausted all the internet to buy them in my size and now I have to buy new tennis shoes again. I hate it.

Chase:     Yeah that's tough, that's tough.

Courn:     And like that's just talking about personal stuff like. That just makes me think a lot about work. I mean, obviously, we both work and executive dysfunction.

Chase:     Oh my gosh, my whole job is to function, like executive function. My whole job is to literally plan the next thing, know what we're doing, okay, the next thing, and the next thing, and then that is my whole job. And so by the time I get home that's probably another impact of the relationship of like being able to communicate with my partner. Like I'm my executive dysfunction has been exhausted. Like we need to have made the choice for what's for dinner the day before and like we need to like have the option to order food if I don't want to cook and just like know that I can't like we just kind of say like you know, like I can't make a choice right now either you make the choice, or we're doing this right. And it's like totally cool and like it's not meant in like a like resentful way, it's just like brain is tapped!

Courn:     I resonate to that so much. Literally, I'm like, I don't even get home. I'm at home. But when my partner gets home and I'm just like, you need to give me two choices for dinner.  I will pick one, but if you give me ten-

Chase:     Mac and cheese.

Courn:     But I'm just like my brain.

Chase:     Mac and cheese. 

Courn:     Those are the options. I said yes. But no, I do feel like my brain is very mushy all the time. I say that a lot, but especially after work I've been functioning too long, extended past my limit. So I just don't do anything productive. Honestly past like 2 o'clock. Which honestly is a miracle. 

Chase:     Do you function better in the mornings or in the evenings? 

Courn:     Ugh. I don't function well any time of the day. Is that an answer?

Chase:     And that's what I've always said.

Courn:     I think I function slightly better in the morning because there's like, everyone else functions poorly in the morning I think from stereotypes people are like, oh, I'm so tired.

Chase:     Oh gross morning!

Courn:     So I think that levels it out and I'm always tired, I'm always drinking tons of coffee. So what other people are like dragging in the morning, like this is my every day, it's my every hour and I'm get really sleepy, I get eepy really easily so I don't do productive things at night.

Chase:     The reason I ask is because one, is there a social socializing aspect to that?

Courn:     Yeahhhh.

Chase:     We're gonna pin that, but also like there's so many people I know who just function so much better like in the afternoon/evenings. Like I do know like a significant amount of people who like literally if they're asked to come into work or start working or even come see me for a session at like 9 a.m. Dead. Absolutely gone. Dead. No, like hardly any focus. I see him at like 2 p.m. Like totally different person. It's great. And so like I don't know if it's like people's just like brains and honestly like kind of your circadian rhythm. If that's like kind of like works better for them. I have always been a morning person, but I think it's because I also worked early in the mornings for a lot of my life. I don't know if that's really how I function naturally.

Courn:     Right. I just feel like that's when I've always, I feel like in general, I don't know if I had to map my energy throughout the day, it's always going down no matter what I do. So if I want a chance at like being high energy, like obviously I'm not waking up at 4am. I'm not that person. But I feel like I am most productive from like 10am to 12pm. 

Chase:     Seriously?

Courn:     And then I don't know, there's some science after eating food, I get a little sleepy. I'm not productive in the afternoon. But I'm also just like, I don't know, after having all the sensory input.

Chase:     Correct.

Courn:     From doing everything in the morning, no matter what that is, even if that's just like literally me sitting at home on a tv hearing my dogs bark, like having to I don't know fetch myself breakfast, and do all that stuff, like I'm just exhausted, I'm exhausted!

Chase:     That's a good point!

Courn:     I don't know, and I definitely think that has an impact for me why I feel like-

Chase:     mhmm!

Courn:     I don't think honestly means you're more productive in the morning, but I do know a lot of like autistic/ADHD people that have very strong periods where like they prefer to work and nowhere else works.

Chase:     Yes, absolutely. And I feel like that's where a lot of our experiences of things like just not working for us, no matter how much we try, it doesn't matter. Like you said, you know, caffeine, food, sleep, preparation, like exercise before or after, or like fidget or like whatever. Like it just sometimes just doesn't work. It just doesn't.

Chase:     I'm definitely the same way. My prime hours are between like 6 and 10 a.m.

Courn:     Okay okay.

Chase:     Which kind of works for my schedule now so I like it's cool, but like once I start hitting that mid morning to like lunchtime I can feel it start to level off and for me I've now learned I have to do a lot of my like admin and computer work where I have less sensory input and it's a lot of like less interactions because my brain is tapped from keeping a conversation and watching someone work out and then like reserving something and then cleaning it and then like checking form and like doing all of that, and or the noises in the gym, or like the smells and like that just like tap tap tap, like and so by the afternoon, it's like sheer admin computer time, don't talk to me.

Courn:     I also love, it's like flexibility for me which I think is part of why I think working from home has been a game changer for me. Just as an autistic person is like, and even just as someone with ADHD as well, because I think the ADHD in me also just makes, I don't know, my productivity very like sporadic. And like as much as I want to do the same things every day, Like I have a very set schedule for working. I answer emails for my first 30 minutes. Like I have everything plucked out hour per hour to the day every day for work.

Courn:     But then there's just days where I wake up or I'm just having a bad day and I'm like, frick, I can't do anything. And I have to mix everything up, which causes me so much just like dysregulation.

Chase:     Ooh, and I bet that combo of like the routine-tism versus like ADHD impulsivity in a way, do you find that like contradicts itself a lot?

Courn:     Yes. Yeah. I think it helps too. I think I definitely present strongly, more strongly on the autistic side, which is why I mainly talk about that. But I do feel like, I don't know, I have a need for spontaneity. I want to do things when I want to do them, but the other part of my brain is just like, you can't do that. Or if you're gonna do it at a random time, it has to be very planned out. So I often end up switching plans a lot at least at work stuff but very quickly like I have to adapt the plan like I can't just like flip it and just like wing it like I'm gonna switch something around like it needs to be very detailed and I will reprogram my entire schedule and make it work, so I don't know it's a lot of on-the-fly stuff, I feel like.

Chase:     Yeah, I feel like for me the contradiction of some of like the typical ADHD impacts and traits made it also hard to identify those things for me. So, like the contradiction of like choice paralysis and it's like sometimes hard to make a choice so you just have like the routine of something and like that needing that routine it's like okay cool I don't think about it, I know this this like, I don't have to stress, I'm not anxious, I'm not waking up being like, oh my gosh I forget but then it's like okay yeah monotonous I've done the same thing for years now. I'm like, suddenly need something different. And then it's like anxiety inducing. And the fact that other people do not experience that is wild. Or that they don't experience that to like the level of dysregulation that ADHD do.

Courn:    Yeah, I agree.

Chase:     And that is a hot take because when people start using ADHD, autism, I mean people do it with like OCD too and just try to say like oh I'm just being so blank right or like oh, like and then try to insert that when like it just invalidates the experiences of all those people with those things that are really really impactful.

Courn:     And almost always like never makes sense either. Like it's always based on like stereotyped ideas of like whatever that neurodivergency is.

Chase:     I have OCD. I just have to have everything clean.

Courn:     And I'm just like that's not what OCD is.

Chase:     Or like oh she's being so bipolar. Right, like same thing It's like stop using these terms and validating these experiences for people who do. Same with like disorganization. Like no, you're just disorganized. You don't have ADHD. Or like just because you're running a little late or that you run late often does not mean you're ADHD.

Courn:     I'm like, I don't think you guys understand because like I'm over here putting a whole calendar detail of every life task I need to do and I still get confused. I don't know what I'm doing-

Chase:    You don't follow it.

Courn:     No!

Chase:    You make it but don't follow it.

Courn:     Yes, I think that's a big thing like as an autistic person like I have my whole life lives on my asana board like I am a ride or die for my asana board like us meeting right now, blocked out in my asana! But I'm just like I still can't keep up with stuff, I still miss stuff, and I'm like every single like I feel like card could be stacked in my favor for me to be organized and I feel like I do so much of that and I still regularly get disorganized and I think that's what's frustrating. 

Chase:     Right. Yeah and it's not just like getting disorganized. It's so much more and like so many there's so many more layers to it that like causes the dysregulation, and this like anxiety, and like all the stuff when it's just like, no you're just upset because it's not perfectly organized or planned out or anything so-

Courn:     It's a lot deeper for sure

Chase:     That's my hot take!

Courn:     Speaking of that, do you feel like you've made like accommodations for yourself, like in your personal life, or at work like to make up for that like to make it easier, like what are those?

Chase:     Having a job with some flexibility and some structure. Like kind of like a hybrid has been really good. I mean I kind of fell into the role. I don't think I knew I needed that going into it, but for me having the control and like the ability to change those things as I need has really been helpful. So like having somewhat of a routine where I put like certain clients at certain times and I know they're always gonna be there and then like okay yeah one week they're gonna have an appointment so they need to move it, like that's been great, but then I also have the power to like take on a new client and then change my schedule if I want. Or I can put something else in this time and like or I can put the same thing every time so I think having that has been good. Sensory accommodations, I got to be real careful about how much like sensory I purposely include in the space I'm training. So like you know turning the fan on because it's hot and people are sweaty and I'm sweaty. That's a noise, that's loud. The other people working out and dropping weights unexpectedly. Natural part of the environment, is cool. Then you've got people talking, and then you got like people maybe playing music because we have like a stereo that people can listen, yeah yeah yep, and then there's like other stuff in the hallway or you know and so like I think like the sensory piece where I know like okay once there's a certain amount of people in the room, like I'm not gonna play music, or I'm not gonna like turn the fan on, or I need to like really talk louder because I'm gonna mumble because I'm overstimulated So, I think just like knowing like for the sensory stuff for sure, I think those are kind of the main ones. What about you? 

Courn:     Yeah, I think work-wise I think similarly having like a very flexible schedule, like I work from home and stuff. So I mean, when I'm having a bad day, when I'm having chronic pain flare-ups, like being able to like, I don't know, drop a day because I don't really schedule meetings. That's not part of my job. I purposely don't schedule meetings is a big part of it. So like my work days are very flexible. Like I definitely take more breaks than the average person. Like if I see my dog looking cute, I'll take 30 minutes off to look at him and admire them.

Chase:     Beautiful! We love that.

Courn:     But I'm also like, I see a lot of breaks because my body gets tired very easily. Like I mentioned I definitely have a very detailed calendar of things I do. I block off time specifically so when I can hyper focus on something with no distractions. But also a big part of it too is just like I only do email communication with clients. Like video calls and phone calls were really tiring for me working in a corporate setting. So I don't do them. You're gonna hear me through email. It's not gonna be right away. That's your problem, not mine.

Chase:     I love it.

Courn:     Personal wise, I think I do a lot of the same things. Like I'm, because like I'm mainly at home, I get to control a lot of my environment. Like I don't normally wear noise cancelling headphones at home because I don't need them. It's very quiet at my house. But when I go out,

Chase:     Until Chappi pops off.

Courn:     Yes, that is time or whenever my partner cooks and uses the overhead fan, which is my mortal enemy, but they cook so much meat.

Chase:     My wife would agree!

Courn:     They cook so much meat. I know it's for ventilation, but oh my god, our fan is so loud.

Chase:     It's so loud, but I would prefer the loudness to the stinky food smell. Like to me, that's the worst.

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:     If we cook and then leave the house, go for a walk, come back and it smells like food. BLEGH.

Courn:     Yeah. I agree. So that's a big thing. Like noise inputs, I'm always wearing headphones. Like I think there's a lot of things that I did naturally that I didn't realize were accommodations. Like, I don't know, I wear a lot looser clothing. I don't wear tight clothing. Like, I don't know, just having a sensory safe, like wardrobe. Like a big thing about eating the same foods, that's probably the biggest for me as an autistic person. Like if I can eliminate as much sensory input as I can, eating the same foods every day helps me a lot with that. And I think one that I talk less about is I also take birth control, continuously cycling, so I don't have periods. And that is probably one of the greatest thing as an autistic person who has so much sensory issues related to periods.

Chase:     I also don't get mine and it's yeah I forget that it's like a thing-

Courn:     It freaking sucks!

Chase:     Literally which we can go into no object permanence and we also need to go into like the food sensory aspect of everything but continue.

Courn:     Yeah, yeah, agree. And I mean I think that's the big things for me but I mean I don't think you realize how many like little things you end up doing that you think are like, oh these are just like quirky little things I do. I take ten extra steps to brush my teeth and do all these things that you suddenly start realizing-

Chase:     Until it's just right!

Courn:     Yeah, like these are all just like slight accommodations and different ways, I don't know, you're managing your lifestyle to make it work for you. And they make such a difference because you notice as soon as that's taken away from you how deregulated you are.

Chase:     And it's so exhausting. I've come home from like a day and just husk of a human. Like gone just dead to the world.

Courn:     Would you say a corn husk of a human? Sorry, sorry guys.

Chase:     It's okay, no it's good. Anytime there's an opportunity to sneak in a corn joke you should. Yeah, it's super dysregulating and I think again that is like another point to bring out that like it is not just another long day at work where it's like stressful, it is just like your nervous system is so over overtaxed and overused because it's trying to like regulate you and it like makes, it takes more energy than like most other people.

Courn:     Oh for sure.

Chase:     So it's not yeah it's not just a long day it's like no my brain is on fire.

Courn:    Yep.

Chase:     Like it's just ringing. Was there any other like relationship accommodations you mentioned like cleaning? I think it's the communication on like the chores for sure I think we do that a lot. Shared responsibility with those and or taking advantage of like services where it might cost a little bit of extra money but it's at like, the it's, with the return of more regulation. Like sensory emotional and like sensory regulation. So like sometimes just ordering groceries. I'm like a stickler. Like I want to save as much money as possible. I'm going to go to the store and find the best deal. Some weekends it can't be like that. Like we got to spend the extra money and just order. I know you got a little bit of a luxury over there.

Courn:     Why? Because I don't go to the grocery store.

Chase:     Because your partner works for them. But-

Courn:     Yes, my partner works for Kroger. So we get a 15% discount. I think that's the right amount. Only on Kroger products though.

Chase:     Sponsor this Kroger.

Courn:     Yeah, don't.

Chase:     No, don't sponsor us. We don't want that. But like yeah, like having to take like sometimes just my ego I'm like I don't want to spend that money to do this but like, it's it's quite the more and more we do it, like I think the more helpful it is. We talked about like cleaning services, sometimes if you have access to that again these are all very expensive things though that can like add up or like not everyone has access to it.

Courn:     Oh, for sure. 

Chase:     It could be like a laundry service, right? Like maybe they come pick up your laundry and fold it for you because folding laundry is the fucking worst. 

Courn:     Yeah. I just think all the point that, I don't know, being disabled is expensive in so many different ways. Yeah. And I think that just applies to the whole spectrum of disabilities.

Chase:     Also just living in an ableist society and capitalism. Capitalism fucking feeds on disabilities. 

Courn:     You forgot to cancel your subscription. Well, guess what? We just signed you up for a yearly plan that's $500.

Chase:     Can't cancel, no refunds.

Courn:     No, you have to call 20 times.

Chase:     It's one day into the subscription.

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:     And you didn't use it.

Courn:     Yep. No.

Chase:     Absolutely. Overall, the theme with relationship is just like being able to talk about it more. So and like see how those needs can be met. How many times have you said or maybe have you heard or I don't even know if you said it. I have said it, like out of sight, out of mind.

Courn:     Oh god. That's like literally my mindset. And I know that's a big ADHD trait too, where if something literally is not in your viewpoint, it doesn't exist.

Chase:     Not at all. 

Courn:     Object permanence. It's just, it's not there.

Chase:     Yeah. The other day it reminded me because I kind of work in a smaller studio area so it doesn't always get cleaned as thoroughly as the rest of the other gym and the other facility. So like, I had no problem being the one to vacuum, it's cool. So I noticed, oh somebody kind of tracked some dirt in here, I need to vacuum. Okay, after that I was done with that session. I went up front, got the vacuum, brought it in, but I had another session so I was like, I'm gonna leave the vacuum in here because I'm gonna forget to vacuum. And of course the vacuum was in there for like six hours with me. Like it was in there for so long because I didn't have like an opportunity to like vacuum. I'm like, you know, I want to vacuum when someone's trying to like squat and do stuff. So yeah, kind of wait for a good time. And of course everyone's like, what does this vacuum doing in here? And I was like, oh, you know, making jokes. But like reality is like, yeah, if I didn't like constantly see it, I would forget to vacuum. Even if maybe it was on a to-do list or something, but you get a to-do list. That's a whole thing. So object permanence, if you don't see it, that's why I think maybe it's hard for ADHD folks to remain organized and clean in a way because so much stuff gets put in a cupboard or in a shelf in a drawer that you don't see it-

Courn:     It's gone.

Chase:     It's gone forever. You never owned that item.

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:     So then you end up having an organization that's like not as visually appealing and could be like mistaken as like messy and cluttered and dirty. But like nah dude, if I don't see that foam roller, it don't exist! In which case, I might buy another one and then I'm gonna have six of these!

Courn:     Right, that too! 

Chase:     Not me in the corner with two right there, but like you know it's like the object permanence is quite wild!

Courn:     Oh I agree!

Chase:     I would have never thought that's a thing. Also eating struggles, where do we even begin with that one?

Courn:     So much.

Chase:     I don't know about you. It wasn't until I got my diagnosis and I like started unmasking did I like realize the texture things. Like texture maybe sensitivities that I have because I didn't really have any growing up as a kid, I ate anything and everything, like granted I ate a lot of processed foods. But like now that is so eating is so stressful.

Courn:     Agree. I've been, I know it's always been very stressful for me, like in two part, because I just was labeled as being very picky, but it was like before I could, I don't know, ultimately make choices. Like, I don't know, my mom told me that I had a really hard time eating foods as a baby. I only would want to drink apple juice. Not much has changed. But even as a kid, I mean, I just got so stressed out about food choices and I didn't know why. And I only wanted to eat things that were very processed. Also didn't know why, which then resulted in me eating, you know, easy mac, not even good mac and cheese, easy mac with water for 8 years, every single day in my pack. I have to denote that. Because some people are like, oh yeah, with milk?

Courn:     No, no, no, no, no. 

Chase:     Milk and butter?

Courn:     No, no, no, no, no. And as you might expect, I had a lot of stomach problems. So this also was just like a vicious cycle. And I think as I got older, I just accepted the fact that I was super picky and I didn't really know why. But it got really bad at some points. Like I felt like I was nutritionally not doing well because I could not, I couldn't eat most fresh foods and vegetables. I couldn't eat meat because of textural problems and like seeing, making the connection I think with discovering I was autistic with sensory differences was such like a light bulb moment, because like I had started resonating with like ARFID like subgroups for quite a while and I didn't know there was a connection to autism so I just thought, man, I'm just the extreme picky eater, I'm that person in that video who gags if they eat something that they're not expected and it felt so embarrassing. So it was really validating for me to like find out that there was like sensory reasons. Like I started, I don't know, thinking more about it. I'm like, why can't I eat meat? Why do I gag when I get a weird texture? Like it's all these sensory differences that also apply to noise and like to touch. Like it's not an isolated experience, but man, food is just like such a hard one. Also people just feel so obligated I don't know to have an opinion on what you're eating and not eating which I hate.

Chase:     Yeah again uninvited opinions.

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:     Quick, quick explanatory comma what is ARFID?

Courn:     It's avoidant restrictive food intake disorder and it's an eating disorder that pretty much like encompasses people who have very selective diets and it's not specific about what it is but it's to the point that it disables you. And I feel like what people think about is like oh yeah these white kids that only eat chicken nuggets, that's not the case There are plenty of people of color who only eat rice or only eat a cultural food. Like it doesn't necessarily mean processed foods, but it often is a lot of plain foods because usually it's people who are very sensory avoidant. And it doesn't mean you're autistic if you have ARFID, but there is a very strong connection. Yes, very high co-occurrence.

Chase:     I probably have that now. I could self-diagnose that. 

Courn:     Yeah, and it's also like, I don't know, there's no really an official ARFID diagnosis either. You don't go to a doctor. It's just like, it's like an eating disorder, okay?

Chase:     That has probably been one of my biggest like maybe frustrations and like maybe resentment, or like really big things to struggle to accept with unmasking and becoming authentically ADHD is like being like sensitive to some of these textures, because I have recently not liked the feeling of being full. So trying to eat enough food just to like not get a headache and like not have my stomach constantly grumbling is just a nightmare. I've never experienced that. I used to love being full as a kid. I was like, oh yeah, this is great. I ate so much food. I also got praised a lot for like eating so much food. Right.

Courn:     Ooh. Toxic.

Chase:     Yeah, ooh, not good. Ooh. But yeah, I don't know. Do you like, do you have, is that like a thing for you do you feel like getting full is like a weird feeling?

Courn:     It's weird because I hate the feeling of being like very overly full but also it's very challenging for me to get full in general. So I think it's a very like rare feeling for me. Like I have a hard time, I always describe as my stomach having like slots. So like I can only eat so much of one food. Like I could not fill myself up on mac and cheese. It only feels like the 70% slot and I need French fries.

Chase:     To make the other 30?

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:     Oh, interesting.

Courn:     So I'm just like, I only really get full if I have the perfect meal. 

Chase:    Ratio! Yeah. 

Courn:     Which is very hard. Like I always like, I don't know if that's a specific thing but I just don't want to eat a single food. I have to eat multiple.

Courn:     And they have to be exactly what I want.

Chase:     Correct.

Courn:     And I can't, like if I have just mac and cheese, I can't eat a whole dish of it. But if I have a side with it that I really like, I suddenly can eat the whole dish.

Chase:     Yes. And that's for me where like those complex textures come into play. Like I need those contrasting textures. If I were to eat just like some chili, UGH. No, I need like some cornbread or like, give me some tortilla chips. That's cool. Then I can like crunch, I can dip, I can eat. Like it's got some combos I can switch it up. But.

Courn:     And I know that's where we differ too. Cause I know you like like contrasting textures.

Chase:     You do not.

Courn:     In some ways I relate because I do like textures on either end of the spectrum. I like really crunchy food or I like really soft food and anything that's mixed is gross to me. So I like my food separate. Like I'll eat a super mushy mac and cheese but then I want really crunchy french fries.

Chase:     They have to be separate. You have to eat all the mac and then french fries.

Courn:     They can't touch and that's a whole other topic but their textures can't touch either in my mouth, like that's gross! Like I want crunchy. 

Chase:     Yeah last night I was at like a little like mini impromptu birthday party and so I just took the chips put them on my plate and then drizzled the salsa all across the top. And it was like they had like a little vegan like cheese dip and I just dribbled it on top because I was like I don't want to dip it and everyone was like, what the fuck, and I was like what? What, like yeah.

Courn:     The amount is inconsistent.

Chase:     The folks who identified as autistic were definitely like, what is wrong with you? And we laughed obviously but like yeah.

Courn:     I'm also just like I have to have the perfect bite every time and these be perfectly portioned for my mouth.

Chase:     Same with the sandwich, you got to eat the sandwich and the burger in the right order right or whatever it is And like that last bite has to be exactly perfect.

Courn:     I know I'm not the only person who also like arranges food by like priority of how good it is.

Chase:     Oh yes.

Courn:     Fruit snacks. 

Chase:     I've done that my whole life and I can't believe that's a thing.

Courn:     Yeah. Yeah. Like also of course none of these are diagnostic criteria but I do think they're fun things that we can share-

Chase:     Experience!

Courn:     That like you don't really think about until someone else calls you out on it and it's just like why are you lining up your fruit snacks in a conga line? Well that's why I'm gonna eat them because I want to save the best for last.

Chase:     Yeah also I'm gonna eat all these nasty like canned green beans first because it's disgusting and then I'm gonna eat the mashed potatoes and I'm gonna save the perfect bite of like let's say some steak, or this meat or whatever because it's the perfect amount of everything and leave that last. Yeah, that's wild, so.

Courn:     There's so many different things and I think just as an adult I think it's it's been a lot to overcome I think the shame and societal stigma that comes with it like I don't know I used to be so embarrassed to order the same food at restaurants or just like have to go to the same select restaurants because I can't try new ones out of the blue. And it's really really hard as an adult but I'm just like even if you're someone's just picky, I just wish that people would have more empathy for each other, like I don't-

Chase:     Compassion!

Courn:      Even if someone's like I don't know doesn't have ARFID, maybe they do, maybe they don't have sensory differences, like why are we such an asshole about people's preferences? Like-

Chase:     Yeah, there is a fine line though like you said who's somebody who will only eat chicken nuggets out of like ignorance of like food and culture versus like you said just like can't help it-

Courn:      Yeah I was like just when like weird racism gets applied to sensory problems too, like people misplace that!

Chase:     Yeah! 

Courn:     And that doesn't mean it doesn't accelerate it because people are just like, oh, I only eat mac and cheese. That's because it's American.

Chase:     Right!

Courn:     And I'm just like, there's plain foods of every culture. Okay. But I think it does end up playing into just like, I don't know, pushing these white foods also.

Chase:     White narratives. 

Courn:     Yep. I also think it plays into like fat phobia and stuff like well maybe you didn't eat mac and cheese you wouldn't be overweight, and it's like that's the only thing I can eat, dog! Fed is always better! I will say that a million times!

Chase:     You can royally fuck right off yeah, If anyone's listening has ever said that you need to think twice, don't say that again.

Courn:     My doctor, well not my doctor, but the doctor's office.

Chase:     Yeah the worst. 

Courn:     They called me to tell me I had high cholesterol and instead of being a normal person about it they said that I must eat an ungodly amount of cheese-

Chase:     After being that high?

Courn:     Yeah, cause after telling them I do not eat meat. I do eat a lot of healthy fats. I do exercise, and they said you must eat an ungodly amount of cheese!

Chase:     I wish y'all could see my face!

Courn:     I hope that's on my medical notes-

Chase:     Eats an ungodly amount of cheese!

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     I'm gonna make you a t-shirt with that!

Courn:     I do like cheese, I am lactose intolerant.

Chase:     Cheese is great!

Courn:     But you know, I'll take one for the team there.

Chase:     You know, we really talked a lot about cheese here.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     That reminds me, what kind of special interests have you had in the past? Or do you have any current fixations? Talk to me about your experiences with hyperfixation.

Courn:     Yeah, no, I'd say my three core special interests have always been Pokemon. That's just the earliest one I remember picking up. I was drawing Jigglypuff when I was in kindergarten. Still love Pokemon so much. Then came art stuff, and I think that has kind of bridged with interior design. If you know, I've hyperfixated on upgrading my house and doing renovations by myself for the past couple of years. And then I'd say the other big one is like dogs. Like I used to make books memorizing different dog breeds and now that fixation is mainly just obsession with my dogs, but I still love dogs so much. And I feel like I have smaller fixations that are like partial spins. It's hard for me to tell. They are lifelong. Like I have a strong interest for fashion and design, but it's like, it's harder for me to categorize those. What would you say your hyperfixations are, or do you things that are more like monotropic interests?

Chase:     Current special interests...women's soccer, women's sports.

Courn:     Very aware of this.

Chase:     Yeah like that's just like a current one. That's probably like the strongest. It's like women's sports, women's soccer. One that's kind of like threaded throughout my life but is not currently would be weightlifting. Specifically, I don't currently do that. Cars. I had like a big interest in cars and just like learning about him. I didn't really like work on them a lot, I did here and there. But like racing modifications all that kind of fuckery, still like pretty interested in a lot of that stuff. I think sneakers could be considered a special interest. I have a complicated relationship with sneakers now. Those are probably like the main ones. There's probably been some small ones here and there.

Courn:     Oh this podcast is a hyper fixation-

Chase:     According to my wife. According to my wife, yes because apparently all I do is talk about it the whole day after we record. I'll be like, and this and that. Because it's so exciting. It's new. It's so exciting.

Chase:     Object per- no object permanence. I'm like, what are my special interests? I don't- I'm like, I'm just like, what? I don't know what they would be looking around.

Courn:     I think at least for me I think something that's become like a big hyperfixation for me is also just like autism and ADHD.

Chase:     That's fair.

Courn:     I think it happens for a lot of like late diagnosed people, like you're suddenly thrust into all this information you did not have and obviously we made a podcast that's partially about it. I know a lot of our conversations are about it. I made a social media account that's mainly about that stuff. So yeah, I would say those are also contenders.

Chase:     True. I mean, even just like my family of origin and like learning about like, like Hawaiian culture, I feel like it's off and on been a fixation and stuff and trying to figure out essentially like who am I? Yeah. Who are you?

Courn:     Where do you come from? Where are you really from?

Chase:     Cue Jean-Ralphio. So I think that comes off and on, of like a, definitely will spend hours and just research and listening podcasts. So yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go watch some women's soccer now, bye!

Chase:     Hey folks a quick disclaimer here, Courn and I speak directly from our own experiences, and while we try our best to amplify marginalized voices and present accurate information, the thoughts expressed here are definitely not a reflection of all neurodivergent, AAPI, or queer folks. So if you have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts, feel free to email us at hell@neurotakes.com. Thanks!