Episode 1: Welcome to Neurotakes

Chase:     I'm Chase, I use she or her pronouns, and I'm a queer Pacific Islander with ADHD.

Courn:     I'm Courn, I use they them pronouns, and I'm a queer autistic Korean American.

Chase:     And we're two college friends that reconnected to make Neurotakes, a podcast about two queer neurodivergents navigating a world not made for us.

Courn:      If you're tired of hearing white folks speak for all marginalized communities, this podcast is for you.

Chase:     We'll be giving our takes on current events, special interests, and personal stories as people with marginalized identities.

Courn:     We hope to find community with other late diagnosed adults who share our identities and whose voices aren't always included.

Chase:     Okay, well, episode 1, we'll get into how we became friends, how we met, how we met as 2 straight girls. When you said that the other day I was like, oh no.

Courn:     It hurts me.

Chase:     It's a special pain. It's a special pain.

Courn:     But I think that's a, there's growth there.

Chase:     Yeah, I mean it really shows where we were at our own lives and then getting to school. We both, I guess, well we both studied graphic design but we, I have been associates and I did less school than you.

Courn:     I didn't realize you only had associates. I got a bachelor's but I mean I did in 3 years all year round.

Chase:     You did it so fast.

Courn:     So granted yeah yeah it felt like an associates.

Chase:     Yeah because I think I you graduated like a couple terms after me. Yeah and we started at the same time.

Courn:     Yeah I graduated in 2018 like of a normal like spring finish.

Chase:     Okay. Yeah. And I think maybe that was the year prior. Gosh.

Courn:     It's wild to think about that cause that's 2018. Now it's freaking 2024. Right. We reconnected last year.

Chase:     It feels like it's been longer. Are you sure? It hasn't been like 2 years.

Courn:     Maybe you're right. I'm bad with years. You might be right. It might be 2 years.

Chase:     It feels like something around that time.

Courn:     2022. That's still like 4 years off though. You didn't really have a strong social media presence. No, I didn't ever know what you were doing.

Chase:     Yeah, so I kept that on lock. Yeah, June of 2017 was when I graduated. Okay, look at that graduation.

Courn:     Look at you.

Chase:     We might show these photos eventually, but.

Courn:     You really should, the long hair kind of gets me with the like preppy button up!

Chase:     Yeah so we both started at the same time, met in our graphic design program, I don't know about you, and this could be something we go into the next episode, but I was the first to go to college in my family.

Courn:     I was not. I got 2 older brothers though. And yeah, my dad came here from Korea. So he also, what's the right word? Yeah, he graduated from the University of Illinois. So fortunately even though my dad came here in high school and did not know English, he figured it out and did it and made it a thing that we would have to go to college. But for context, both my brothers went into medical degrees. I did not. I'm a little artist just drawing things for fun as you might say.

Chase:     Just does art.

Courn:     Yeah so even though I'm not the first to go to college I am the first to go to a crappy college.

Chase:     That's fair. The thought that we went to a university seems weird like that doesn't feel like a university.

Courn:     I don't think it was legally, yeah there...

Chase:     really is there a difference?

Courn:     I think I think the university has to be like state-funded or something. Don't kill me.

Chase:     Is that why because it's like the Institute. Yeah, it's like an Institute. It's a different legal name.

Courn:     Yeah, I think it's like private but also they just were a really crappy school so.

Chase:     Yeah I can't believe I thought that was like such a big deal like I got into college, yeah. No it's not even that hard to get into!

Courn:     no I thought I was so legit cuz I mean I saw those Art Institute of Portland ads like in high school where they showed like the dramatic like plain white object that they were making like this is your future all the creativity see it was a really big deal I was like yeah I got into this school that you know has like a 90 percent approval...

Chase:     acceptance yeah!

Courn:     yeah,

Chase:     yeah I did apply for a couple other schools but having absolutely no clue what I was doing with college applications I wasn't even planning to go to college. Yeah? At all. At all. Like you know in high school when you start to finish junior year and even like start of senior when they're like talking about what you're playing, what college stuff. I literally was like oh I'm not gonna go to college. Like I immediately was like I'm not gonna go. One because I was raised in a cult and they're like no college there more to come on that but I like so I was yeah I was also totally fine to like not go to college I definitely got some FOMO and was like feeling left out because all my friends like we're gonna go. We're gonna apply, and they were already doing like either tours or checking out schools and like all that shit or had siblings to go. So yeah, it wasn't until I think PSU did there What I guess a school did there like? Presentation, you know when they go through and kind of like, you know, and then I found out there was like a graphic design program and I was like, oh my God, I love graphic design. Cause I think it was going to originally go for like accounting or marketing, honestly.

Courn:     I kind of love that practical side of you. I could not imagine you in that.

Chase:     Really?

Courn:     Actually, you know, I could, I could see you doing that. 

Chase:     It's the math. Yeah it's the math. That's why I'm the tech producer now.

Courn:     Yeah I had no idea what graphic design was in college. 

Chase:     Really? Wait you didn't know in college but you went to school for graphic design in college?

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:    What?

Courn:     I had no idea until I showed up. Okay. Yeah that's just that's on me honestly. I was in yearbook so and then we took those like those junior career tests online. I don't know if other schools took those, but most people get 5 options or so back. I got 1 and it literally just said graphic design.

Chase:    Oh, okay. That's cool.

Courn:     Yeah, and then I got an internship in town and it wasn't really graphic design stuff that I did. I found out later, I just was writing social media posts and I thought that was graphic design. So my portfolio that I submitted was literally just like some drawings. A logo I made for my mom's massage business.

Chase:    Oh, wow.

Courn:     That was pretty much like the Canva equivalent of what Canva was back in like...

Chase:     which is what 2014 what did you use do you remember don't even say paint for those of you about to say paint no!

Courn:     it was not paint I was above that yea,h I did have like a school version of Photoshop and I think I use some of that yeah But there was like an online one. Something that was like pic something.

Chase:     Something like that. It does sound familiar.

Courn:     Yeah that I laid the type out in.

Chase:     Yeah. Okay. A step up from the word art on Microsoft.

Courn:     Yeah a very small step. For the time revolutionary.

Chase:     That's fair. I took graphic design classes in my high school.

Courn:     You went to a big school, didn't you?

Chase:     Well, I went to a school in town for one.

Courn:     Yeah. For context, I grew up in the middle of nowhere, Tillamook Coast. Our graduating class was like 20 some people.

Chase:     That's and for comparison, I went to like a main like suburban high school where I think my graduating class was like 2,000, maybe 2,500 yeah.

Courn:     That is so high I don't know why I was expecting like 500 people and then you were just like 2,000 people...

Chase:     well maybe had that backwards for comparison 500 to 20 that's still big because ours just happens. We go to the big University of Portland, like an auditorium thing. Like that's where our school's graduations are always held. And like each family gets like 8 tickets or each student gets like 8 tickets or something for like family and friends.

Courn:     Okay. I feel like my only comparison is literally like college graduation. Not our college graduation.

Chase:     No, ours was whack.

Courn:     But like my brother's at OSU.  

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:    And Like, yeah, it was a massive stadium.

Chase:    Like a real one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, I guess, met there, had our, had classes together.

Courn:     Yeah, I don't remember how exactly we met, but I know that we were both kind of standoffish people. You probably initiated it because I did not initiate making any friends in college.

Chase:     Yeah and of course my outlook going into college was just like 1) I cheated, I cheated a lot in high school like a lot because school was very hard for me, like school is not made for neurodivergent kids.

Courn:     That's fair.

Chase:     Like typical learning and so because I also like learned to cheat pretty early on. This is gonna come around, stay with me folks. Because I learned to cheat early on like I was successful in school so my parents never thought any of the wiser that I was like not doing well other than me just like absolutely struggling to do anything. But I was like I would just like glance over like cheat so coming into college having that outlook of like I don't know what I'm doing what did I get myself into I can do this a little bit but like not too sure. So I picked probably what I thought was the smart people in the room to be friends and strategize it.

Courn:     Was that me?

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     Ooh. 

Chase:     Yeah. You were also probably 1 of the better artists that was in those classes. I feel like even if you didn't have that much experience, you were like really solid.

Courn:     I'll take that compliment. Like honestly, the bar was not super duper high.

Chase:     No, but you were significantly better than everyone else.

Courn:     Well I'll take that. Yeah okay.

Chase:     Doesn't matter if the bar was low like your stuff was still really solid. Have you posted any of that ever?

Courn:     From school?

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     I think I did early on on Instagram but a lot of it's kind of just cringey now like...

Chase:     that's fair, for the time like that's that was solid especially knowing you didn't have that much like background with it so yeah I don't know I probably was yeah friends or maybe reached out did we work on we didn't work on projects together?

Courn:     I don't think so, but I do remember you from like my first year of college like being in some of those introductory classes where I was just learning how to use Illustrator like I remember you turning in assignments that were like you know the bare minimum.

Chase:     Yeah for sure.

Courn:     Getting by and the teacher would definitely give you some slack about it.

Chase:     Yeah for sure, for sure. I literally just did just enough to get through. I was like...

Courn:     That's fair.

Chase:     The mindset of like how how little can I do and just get by?

Courn:     Because I feel like I came to the mindset in college like high school was very easy for me because I went to a really small school. So like comparatively to other schools I didn't have to do hard things. Like it was a very easy high school. Like my senior year, I just mainly took art classes.

Chase:     Yeah. So- who didn't do that in senior year though? Especially yearbook.

Courn:     Yeah. I'm like coming into college, I was like very intimidated that it was gonna be very like overwhelming just from what my brothers had told me being at like OSU and being a medical program yeah why'd I expect that of an art school...

Chase:     I was gonna say art school I feel like it's different.

Courn:     but the workload is definitely really freaking hard!

Chase:     It was a lot, each class I feel like had that significant load yeah workload in and out.

Courn:     Definitely! But then you'd like take a class, like, you know, I was in like math 205. Oh my gosh. And it was like legit, like algebra 1. I don't even know what the math levels are, but it was like middle school math.

Chase:     For sure.

Courn:     And I was like, yeah, I can do this in college. If this is what it's about, I got it.

Chase:     Why is college so hard?

Courn:     Why are people so hard?

Chase:     It's so easy at my age. I'm taking 200 level, it's nothing.

Courn:     Yeah, my private art school, like gen ed classes, ain't got nothing on me.

Chase:     Yeah, little did we know those were like the entry to gen ed classes honestly. Probably how difficult those were.

Courn:     But I feel like context we didn't really hang out that much in school. I mean the school made it so that you were on campus all day so like yeah I think we like would occasionally eat meals together and stuff.

Chase:     Maybe.

Courn:     But I don't think we ever hung out outside of class.

Chase:     You want to know why?

Courn:     Why?

Chase:     Because I was in a cult at the time. I wasn't allowed to be friends with you technically.

Courn:     Drama!

Chase:     To start it off. No for real like I could be friends with you like at the time like in the cult perspective like you know be friends with you at school it's like no different than like co-workers and like your friends in that way but like we didn't have quote the same beliefs you weren't of the same cult as me, so like I was not supposed to hang out with you outside of school or outside of like the requirement essentially.

Courn:     That's just yeah, that's just wild to think about now. Like obviously I didn't think too much about it back then. I was so focused on school. But if it's any consolation, I didn't hang out I think with anyone outside of school. Besides maybe like design related events.

Chase:     You were a pretty workaholic and you were like full-time school and you worked at that time still. You were working through school.

Courn:     Yeah I was. Yeah so. But still dang that's a lot.

Chase:     Yeah so that's why we didn't really hang out I feel like outside of that we were just going through school like we were both wanting to be I guess relatively good at school I don't want to speak for you but like

Courn:     yeah for sure!

Chase:     trying to learnm learn what I could I feel like our professors and a few of them dare we say professors, like really did have some good skills I use some of those skills to now! Socializing. So yeah, we did not hang outside of school because I wouldn't allow it. Just kidding. So I mean like we're definitely friends, friendly in school. I feel like like college friends there. But I don't know, go through school. We had a kind of a lot of similarities Maybe yeah.

Courn:     Ijust like we never really talked about personal stuff or I think I honestly I think I did a bad job asking you about personal stuff and you know Maybe there was a little resistance because yeah, as you say you were in a cult. Yeah, but yeah.

Chase:     Double life-ing it! Honestly, yeah, that's really what it was to be honest I didn't I would at that point I was like probably more cognizant of like not wanting to be a part of it and or Was like really okay having 2 separate lives. I lived a double life for so long. So even in college, like going into it, you had like cult Chase and like non-cult Chase. I feel like, so like, I didn't talk about my personal life as much because my personal life was all related to the church. And so like, I just didn't want to talk about that and I wanted to pretend I was not part of it.

Courn:     Yeah, I think that's why it comes as a surprise to me now even knowing that I'm like, I don't know. At the time, most religious people I knew were very open about being religious and you'd never really mentioned any affiliation or anything. Like I just knew you as kind of like, oh yeah, Chase likes to work out. Like they're really boisterous and outgoing. Like that was the Chase I knew and I just was like oh they're cool like...

Chase:     That's true, I forget about that. that's the thing though the cult I was in which y'all can find out now I was raised Jehovah's Witness, born and raised into it well we'll go into that another time...but they also like one of the things is like they don't call themselves like a church or they don't really like refer to themselves It's like a religion in a way kind of so like I feel like a lot of times if I were to say, oh I'm going to church like that's not how you were taught to talk about it you would say like...

Courn:     yeah that's interesting, see I feel like I need a whole explainer episode on this because we honestly haven't talked like we doubt about this and I don't know a lot about like Jehovah's Witness stuff like...

Chase:     Massive, yeah. It's honestly probably a full hour podcast on that.

Courn:     Okay, let's go. I'm excited about that.

Chase:     Yeah, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good. 

Courn:     But keep chugging along.

Chase:     So, I mean, that's like the background I feel like goes to like why I also probably was like kind of more guarded and like withdrawn from our maybe like friendship in college. It was like almost a very functional like friendship.

Courn:     Yeah, and that's how I felt all my college friendships were too, like I don't, I think that was very mutual, mutual for both of us. Like I felt like casually as you graduated first, we didn't really keep in touch, I graduated. Yeah, and then that was kind of it yeah probably quite a few years and I don't think there was any like there's nothing negative there's no hostility it was just like oh we were college friends.

Chase:     Drifted apart yeah yeah. I honestly probably at the time I thought I was going to be in the church for the rest of my life still. So like, I probably was like, oh, I'm never gonna see this person again.

Courn:     Oh my gosh.

Chase:     As sad as that probably made me at the time, honestly. Like, yeah. No, it was just kind of like, well, Armageddon's gonna come, I'm never gonna see this person again.

Courn:     Oh my god!

Chase:     We're gonna drop that right.

Courn:     Zero context. 

Chase:    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean if you talk about really high controlling Christianity groups, Armageddon's right up there. But I mean yeah, no hostility. We just kind of drifted apart for many, many years. I also like probably purged my social media quite a bit, trying to be like, I need to not have non-church people following. Like I need to just like have J-dubs with me.

Courn:     But see, I think I followed you on Instagram, but I don't think you were active on that. So I just see an occasional like photo for major life events.

Chase:     Yeah, or posting if I was traveling somewhere.

Courn:     Yes I also thought you traveled a lot.

Chase:     I did.

Courn:     You did travel a lot.

Chase:     I did the moment I graduated I was like travel out. Yeah that was my DR trip. I went to Dominican Republic post-graduation. Remember when I was thinking about getting a dog?

Courn:     Yeah! I just remember all of your like trips.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     Or you just telling me like horror stories from some of your trips.

Chase:     You know, I'm glad you saw them as horror stories because looking back they were.

Courn:     They felt like horror stories when you told them to me even when they weren't to you. Like you were like, oh, this was so much fun. I was like, oh my God, you could have died.

Chase:     I really could have.

Courn:     They were really scary.

Chase:     Not an exaggeration there, unfortunately. Very dangerous situations. But again, that's what happens when you raise your child in a cult and give them no life skills and then let them go.

Courn:     Fair enough.

Chase:     Into the world and have experiences because now I'm unequipped to protect myself and keep myself safe.

Courn:     Yeah, preach.

Chase:     So fuck you mom and dad.

Courn:     So why did you reach out? Like I think you were the one who reached out to me on Instagram.

Chase:     I bet you, well I mean probably once I, pandemic hit, stopped going to church. Yeah.

Courn:     I don't know. 

Chase:     I was gonna say that timeline. Pandemic hit, I was living with these people I was dating at the time. And so we were in lockdown. That relatively ended. So then I was like trying to figure myself out. And of course, part of the breakup was my ex asking me, like, what are you? Are you bi? Are you gay? Like, what is it? And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm straight as I actively was dating a girl. So that's a whole story. But I feel like you know like though like so it came out to myself. Cut off a lot of like church ties. Probably like reconnected with some like non-church connections like you and maybe some other folks and at the time maybe I don't know if that's when you were posting whatever you're posting I'm sure that's what like reconnected yeah but I was just like...

Courn:      I think, I think that may have been the same fall that I came out as ace and stuff. So I think that aligns...

Chase:     maybe around that same time?

Courn:     Yeah. That feels right.

Chase:     Okay. I mean, yeah. 2020 is when I came out.

Courn:     Yeah. I just, I just remember...

Chase:     Relatively.

Courn:     Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think that was around the time I came out to it was like 20 I think maybe 2021 for me. Yeah, but obviously not a big deals coming out is like I don't know ace I mean, I had a partner of like 7 plus years at that time. So yeah, which that's a whole thing to get into...

Chase:     I know that's so wild. So I think yeah, maybe just reached out was like there's some kind of oh, maybe also like getting diagnosed myself the ADHD. Yeah ,and then like I think we were like kind of like living our separate lives but then had so many commonalities that maybe like there was a post or something that kicked it off and we were like, oh my God.

Courn:     Yeah, I'm not even sure I was fully posting like on candy.courn. Oh yeah. Like being autistic. 

Chase:     That was like right as we reconnected.

Courn:     Yeah, I think it was right after that. And then I was like, okay, I think this is something I need to unpack online for people to see that's maybe just the Gen Z in me. But yeah, no, I do remember walking up and within like 20 seconds, like we both, you were just like, oh, I'm gay. I have ADHD and I was just like, oh, I'm a panromantic asexual and I'm autistic. It just, like I imagine the table next to us is probably like what is going on?

Chase:     I don't know. It's Portland.

Courn:     Yeah, that's that's probably a typical convo. 

Chase:     We're so we both, I was so nervous for that coffee.

Courn:     Yeah, me too. But it went I think it went smooth from my point of view and we talked for like 2 or 3 hours or something. It was it was quite a time.

Chase:     Definitely one of the first reconnections and I think maybe like sparks or even like core memories of what it feels like to connect with someone who does who has similar identities, and values, you know, who like no one else in maybe like my community at the time and like my world really resonated with in the same way. While having that previous like friendship and experience through college.

Courn:     Yeah, I would agree it's a similar situation for me. It's me and like, I still don't have a lot of like friends in general in Portland since I came up here for college. Like, because I went to a small school, most of my friends from high school are white and they don't always get it. So for me, it was a big thing to like meet someone else who was like on the AAPI umbrella and like could experience neurodivergency, could understand these experiences. Like it was a big for me connection. I instantly felt like, oh man, I know Chase is gonna be a really good friend moving forward. Like I could just tell as soon as we reconnected, I was just like...

Chase:     there's something special about that.

Chase:     And like that feeling is very, I don't know, we talk about it's like very empowering or very like safe, comforting there's oh, yeah.

Courn:     It's also just very deserving. Yeah. I don't know. Everyone should get that It shouldn't have to happen when you're like in your mid-twenties. I don't know like where where are we now Courn?

Courn:     You tell me where tell me now. Where are you? Where are you now? What are you doing? What do you do for fun? I'd love to know.

Chase:     I wasn't even married yet when we reconnected. So there's that. So now I'm married. I have an amazing wife. We've been married for a little over a year. I work in the fitness industry as a fitness manager. I don't have a relationship really with my family right now. I talk to my sister here and there.

Courn:     Yeah. 

Chase:     Also keep a pretty small friend group. I think that's another piece that reconnected us is like we almost like had lost our original friends or maybe like childhood and teenage hood friends. And so we're like now adults trying to make new friends after college, which I mean, people talk about all the time. Yeah, making friends outside of college as an adult, It's fucking hard.

Courn:     It's very hard. Then you add on the levels of like neurodivergency, my cultural upbringing, it's even more hard than like a very whitewashed town. 

Chase:     Exactly. Yeah I currently play on a local LGBTQ soccer team and league. Used to be in the design industry, definitely got a job in it after college, but learned quickly that it's not for me.

Courn:     Yeah, fair.

Chase:     That's actually what drove me into graphic design to begin with. I liked being creative and drawing or doing whatever, but my hands always felt so shaky when I was drawing and I never felt like my drawings were very smooth or accurate. I feel like when I learned I could draw and create designs and drawings on the computer and it was like more clean-lined. I was like, oh this is great.

Courn:     Yeah same for me. I mean I feel like a lot of people would be like, oh yeah you must have been like an artist growing up and I feel like I was in certain ways but I wasn't like really talented at drawing.

Chase:     Because you didn't do a lot of art as a kid.

Courn:     Like I did drawing but I just wasn't very, I mean it's not like I was bad at it, but I wasn't like I feel like I saw some other kids that came into art programs that felt like they could just draw stuff out of their head. I've always been very analytical about drawing. Like I could draw really good bubble lettering. Like I could draw dogs that I practiced. Like, but I wasn't just gonna like draw people out of my mind. So like most of college stuff, like I didn't do any hand drawn stuff. It was all computer. So I was on that same boat, that I was like I didn't realize you could do so much art on the computer and that was really exciting for me it felt like a more practical form of art which like the autistic in me is like oh yes like I don't understand creativity, like I don't understand making things out of nothing like I like to start somewhere.

Chase:     Mm-hmm My graphic design teacher in high school always said that design is problem solving art. Like design always has a purpose. And I hated hearing that at the time, But it's kind of true when you think about it.

Courn:     Yeah, I agree. But then I'm also just like, in art school, I used to say that exact same thing and I'd put down other people who just made art, which was not the point of it either, because art has many uses, it has many methods. I mean, art always has different messages, a lot of political messages and stuff so.

Chase:     yeah it did feel really excluding when she said that I was because like I made something I was like oh I really like this I want to do this and she's like okay but like how like tie it to the creative brief or like how does this connect, and I was like yeah I don't know I just like it I think it looks cool,, and she's like no it has and I was like what and so that was definitely a moment. Oh, look at that. I'm remembering it to this day. Yeah. So yeah, I think like...

Courn:     Core moment.

Chase:     Where are you at now with your life, your job, your lovers?

Courn:     Oh, multiple. No, Where am I at with my life? Yeah, I run a one-person design studio, which is just fancy words for saying, like, I'm a freelance graphic designer. I do illustration stuff. I'm still very much in the creative field, but 2020, I left, mainly because they wanted to cut my salary at my job about like 30% which meant I wouldn't be able to pay my bills and a host of other problems that probably go on in later episodes just different problematic things about my race and gender and identity working as a new designer in the field so then I decided I want to do it on my own and luckily that worked out with getting a bigger social media following and being able to like do that. Other things in my life, I am married I've been married almost 3 years now it's of the same partner we met in high school actually he was my first boyfriend and then I married him cuz yeah that's that's what people do if you like someone!

Chase:     small town life yeah!

Courn:     Truly, which is wild because I am NOT a small-town person I feel like anymore...

Chase:     Not at all.

Courn:     I have two dogs that I really love yeah bean and choppy yeah beans right in my hands right now.

Chase:     if you're listening to this podcast you probably already know these dogs 

Courn:     yeah you probably do! They're very annoying they're very cute yeah I have to stop them from barking at this very moment. Other things in life. Yeah, I feel like social media is a big part of my life. If you guys are coming from Instagram, you probably know that I share way too much stuff online.

Chase:     Nah, you're good.

Courn:     Hobbies? I don't, who has them? I don't know. I feel like all my special interests are my hobbies, which is usually just making like different Pokemon stuff, playing games. I watch a lot of movies with my partner.

Chase:     Yeah, you're really into the Lego pieces. What are those ones you're doing?

Courn:     Mega. The Mega. Yeah Mega has the Pokemon exclusive so that's why we're Team Mega. Yeah Lego has Animal Crossing so I'll give them that but.

Chase:     Are video games a hobby? Do you consider that for yourself?

Courn:     I mean yeah. yeah. 

Chase:     I guess that's a hobby of mine. Small.

Courn:     Yeah I would say for a few years it wasn't but it was a really big hobby of mine in college and then I took a break a few years because I was just honestly so burnt out at my job that I didn't have time to play games. But the past like few months, we've been playing a lot of games together like kind of co-op partner games and it's been really nice to like get back into it as a hobby.

Chase:     Yeah the neurodivergent burnout life. Yeah. Where like even the hobbies and things you enjoy don't make a difference.

Courn:     Truly. Yeah, I just didn't have any time for any hobbies when I hated my job and was working 50 hour work weeks. Like I just went home and decompressed and slept.

Chase:     You're just trying to survive at that point. Yes. You're like survival mode.

Courn:     Very much so. 

Chase:     Ooh, dude. Yeah, I don't miss those days. I guess sometimes I work 50 hours. I don't think so. I think I'm so used to not working 40 that when I do pop up to 40 I'm like WHAT, yeah this is so much work!

Courn:     It's a weird thing working at home because like billable hour wise I probably don't work more than 20 hours a week which makes it seem like I don't work at all but I'm down here from 8 to 5, 5 days a week I mean answering emails, yeah making social media content. So sometimes I kind of miss just having a nice schedule when I knew when to work. But also I like being able to take off afternoons and just take a nap when I'm not feeling good, which is a lot.

Chase:     That flexibility is nice. Yeah, That's nice. Midday naps. I used to nap in my car when I was between sessions. When I was working two gyms, I would like do sessions in the morning at one place, nap in my car in the middle of the day, go to the other place in the afternoon.

Courn:     I mean, it makes sense to me. I used to like nap at my lunch break in high school and in college. 

Chase:     I know a lot of people who would nap on their lunch break at work in the offices. And I wonder how many of them are neurodivergent.

Courn:     There's a lot of like studies that show a lot of neurodivergent people just need naps. And it's not like you being depressed. It's not you being sad. It's just- 

Chase:     Not drinking enough water.

Courn:     No, our brains are just working extra hard to do all this information yeah so yeah we need more sleep I mean I already had like 12 hours a day I'm not gonna lie and then I will still nap.

Chase:     Do you think it's just due to the exhaustion of living in a society that's not built for us as well and everything takes four steps.

Courn:     Oh yeah, I think it's all that and more. Like I've seen studies that go into every single thing like masking, sensory information, like actually your brain is just processing more things like so you literally need more rest.

Chase:     So you could say that we work harder than everyone else. You know,

Courn:     Yes and no. Don't quote me on that.

Chase:     Almost not, kind of not by choice.

Courn:     Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's by survival. It's not like I'm choosing like, oh, I wanna do more work. I wanna process more information. That's just our brains.

Chase:     Yeah. Speaking of brains, smart people, you're Asian. What would you say your cultural upbringing is? 

Courn:     Smart people, Asian. Yeah, I mean, I usually say Korean American. For context, my dad is full Korean. He immigrated here from South Korea when he was in high school and my mom is full white and from the South. And a lot of people talk about Asian mom, white dad, but white mom, Asian dad is my scenario, which means that like you usually grow up with almost zero cultural immersion if you have a very distant dad like I do. And I don't think that's like a cultural thing it's just him being an asshole so yeah I didn't know anything about being Korean growing up other than that like kids knew I looked Asian

Chase:     uh-huh.

Courn:      And I didn't even eat any Korean food like I had zero cultural upbringing in that. 

Chase:     Really?

Courn:      I just got boxed as an outsider because I went to a very small school and I could not pass for white there and people very much were like, you're Asian, you're so different and all the stereotypes that come with that being a kid.

Chase:     But like how you were raised was like almost no different than the white people around you.

Courn:      Yeah.

Chase:     Interesting. Like I perceive yourself as different?

Courn:     Oh yeah. Okay. I mean not internally but I think externally.

Chase:     Yeah like a mixed signal in that?

Courn:     Yeah, cuz it was just like I felt like I grew up like any other white family, which there's some definitely some internalized racism in there. But I mean, anytime I went to school, like the first thing any kid would say to me, you know how elementary school kids are. They're just like, oh, you have long Asian hair. Like your eyes are squinty. Like just-

Chase:     Must be small town shit.

Courn:     Yeah, that is small town shit. It's also just like early 2000s shit.

Chase:     Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Courn:     So yeah, I just knew I didn't fit in but I didn't know why I just knew I was Asian like I didn't actually attach to being Korean. Like I had no idea what the difference between being Korean was versus being Chinese or Japanese other than like by title because no one taught me. Like these are all things I had to unpack as honestly an adult and most of the time after college, like I didn't really understand Korean culture. So I don't have a lot of culture in my upbringing like, what about you?

Chase:     Interesting. My dad is also the ethnic one, no, we don't say ethnic here, my dad was born in Hawaii and so him and his brother were born in Hawaii. My sister and I are the first ones born off of the islands of Hawaii. I'm working on that verbiage folks, not saying mainland. Anyways, so I actually had a pretty decent or pretty like strong connection to some of the Hawaiian culture. Hawaiian Filipino culture is kind of mainly what identifies. My mom is also white and from the south. So we've got that going. My mom pretty much disowned a lot of her family as a teenager. So she kind of assimilated into my dad's family and like they were very like welcoming of her and like kind of took her in almost like a this poor girl has no family we'll take her in kind of thing. 

Courn:     That's nice.

Chase:     They were super nice about it, but it meant that my mom being very white and from the South and very poor growing up, like learned a lot of like kind of Asian cooking and Hawaiian cooking, which is kind of wild. She took it in pretty well, but I definitely grew up with like a mixed, I think mixed signals is the way to put it, with my like Hawaiian identity, because I was very proud of being Hawaiian growing up as a kid. Like Hawaiians are very proud of them, of what they, you know, what they represent. Even going to school, it was kind of viewed more as like cool than I was Hawaiian. Cause I think, you know, there's such a good, there's a good like-

Courn:     trademark: Hawaiians are the cool Asians.

Chase:     People love Hawaii. Like there's nothing really bad, you know, so like I, in general, I feel like just the perception of people, I love going to Hawaii, I love Hawaii. So like, I feel like it made, I don't know, maybe it made me cool, maybe it didn't. So like, I knew I was different in that regard of like not white, but I also went to a school a decent amount of not white kids. So, grew up eating a lot of like simplified Hawaiian foods, a lot of culture. We went back to Hawaii almost every year so I feel like that also kind of connected in but I had this extra layer of like separation because of the church and like my family so I did not see or really have any relationships with any of my extended family if they were not part of the JW church and culture.

Courn:     That makes sense.

Chase:     So it kind of created this weird division where like even within my own culture of Hawaiian and Filipino, Asians, all kind of like those like multi layers there like there was still the separation of like oh there's some pagan roots in your Hawaiian identity so like you have to pick and choose what you identify with, right which is kind of weird.

Courn:     it is weird but I mean that that makes sense...

Chase:     a double standard everything, that was like such a double standard so I think that was the precedent growing up with cultural but no my mom was proud of her like whiteness here ,and there where it came up but mostly food and even then like gumbo was her biggest pride you know which gumbo is delicious.

Courn:     I do feel like that's like southern women and foodm like my mom very much like biscuits, and gravy like a lot of fatty southern food.

Chase:     it's so good!

Courn:     Really a lot of cheese and potatoes for us but...

Chase:     Did you ever watch that documentary on Netflix called "High on the Hog?"

Courn:     No. I haven't!

Chase:     I highly recommend y'all listening check it out it's like a two seasons of a of someone who goes through and like explains the food history of America and like coming from the south and like the slave trade, so good!

Courn:     I a thousand percent believe it I'm like that makes so much-

Chase:     I mean every good food that we know of in America that's like quote American cuisine

Courn:     yeah it's from enslaved Africans.

Chase:     Absolutely and it's like it has African roots like the dishes from Africa that they just modified here. Yeah. So wild.

Courn:     I mean, I think that's honestly the backbone, a lot of Southern culture. Like obviously we know that with music and I think that's coming up again with like Beyonce's new album and stuff. Country music was literally built off the backbone of Black musicians. I mean, that doesn't...

Chase:     surprise!

Courn:     It's built off of food. Yeah, it turns out the South has no culture. It's just Black culture made up to be Southern white people culture when it's not.

Chase:     We touched on like kind of how we came out to ourselves. I hate that term by the way. I don't know about you, but like coming out, I hate that. But like when, what was your kind of journey to maybe like your queerness and how you came to your like identities today? What would you say? It's a complicated question.

Courn:     It is. I feel especially because I don't know I I think it's different when you have some of like the fringe I feel like queer identities which shouldn't be fringed but they definitely are so I feel like people don't talk about that I didn't have this like big gay awakening.

Chase:     True.

Courn:     Like it was just like as a kid, like I didn't understand what liking someone meant. I liked a lot of people, but people told me that you were supposed to like boys because I was a little girl at the time. So that's what I did. But I kind of liked some of my friends that were also girls, but dating them, not a thing. I also just was never really sexually attracted to people all throughout school. I mean, up into high school, just a lot of friends would talk about like, oh man, like look at that V on that guy's waist. Yeah, and I'm like, what is that? Why is that attractive? People talk about butts or like bulges and stuff, or even, you know, not just like male anatomy, like boobs and stuff. I just saw it as a very like science-based thing. I'm like, oh yeah, that's just fat on your body. Those are just organs.

Chase:     Okay.

Courn:     But I'm like, I met my partner in high school. I really liked them. So yeah, I mean, we've been together since, but I think it was at that time, like, because I got in a relationship, it was really easy for me to put aside those things like, oh, maybe I like girls, maybe I'm not sexually attracted to anyone, that I found someone that was my person, so it made it easier to not think about those things. And honestly, I didn't even know that being ace was a thing well into like oh yeah my 20s I had no idea like I think I watched one show where they mentioned it and I was like oh!

Chase:     Do you remember what show it was?

Courn:     No, I don't but I think it was one of those cheesy high schooler shows yeah and I don't even think it was a good representation of being ace or anything but I do remember looking it up and like of course going to the internet and read it and things and looking up that I didn't realize that other people felt that way that I'm just like oh I don't find sex to be something that I necessarily want to do or need to do. I could go my whole life not doing it. And then it also brought awake all these feelings that I'm like, oh, if I'm ace, the reason why I never thought I was gay is because I didn't want to sleep with women, but I didn't want to sleep with men either. I didn't want to sleep with anyone. But I realized I was like, oh yeah, but the thought of like, you know, hugging women, like being in a relationship with them, I was like, that's so appealing to me. And I was like, oh, that's literally the definition of panromantic. And then I was like, oh, I guess I'm a panromantic ace. But here I am married to a cis man and it felt like none of that mattered. So it didn't really feel like a big coming out. Like I had a formal come out on Instagram and people were really nice about it. I never formally came out to my family or anything. We just don't talk about it because that's what families do.

Chase:     Interesting, interesting. The crush is through. Yeah, that's funny. I also didn't understand crushes on guys.

Courn:     What's the big deal?

Chase:     Do you feel like, okay for one, I did not know about asexual either honestly until 2020, 2021 when my roommate at the time came out and I was like oh I didn't know that was an option. That's cool. Good for you. You know, at that time I was like, I was already out, but I was like,   okay, cool. 

Courn:   That's the ideal reaction. That's all we're asking for.

Chase:     It was ironic though, because we definitely played drinking games where I was like, one of the questions would come out and be like, like, talk about your first time or something ridiculous, right? And then, yeah, and then of course how the person answered at the time looking back we all kind of laughed like oh yeah..

Courn:     that makes sense!

Chase:     Makes sense now of course you know but yeah I didn't know asexuals an option so how like it makes me reminds me of how important it's really to like talk about all these different things because I wonder how different your life would have been if you even knew that was an option earlier on.

Courn:     Yeah I don't know if how much would have been different but I guess I would have found identity and found community people like me a lot sooner but I mean the representation just isn't great. And I think that's also part of the problem. Like, you know, had I been saying I was ace, I mean, even now, but especially like 5 or 10 years ago, people just assume that that means you can't be in a relationship. You by default could never have sex. Like you'd never do any sexual activity, which we know being asexual is a spectrum. Many people have sex. They do those things. Being ace does not mean you're aromantic. I'm not aromantic. So yeah, there's a lot of education there. Like I even think of a lot of queer people just kind of don't talk about being ace whatsoever. I mean, it's LGBTQIA, which people think that's ally.  You know how many people have corrected me that it's ally. Do you think that an ally would get a place in the acronym?

Chase:     Yes, because white straight people probably come up with this and insert themselves in everything.

Courn:     Yes, I know you touched a little bit kind of like as you came out of your little JW cults like coming to terms with your sexuality, but like what about when you were younger, like these feelings had to have started somewhere. I know we talked about boy crushes but...

Chase:     I had crushes on girls from a very early age. Absolutely had no idea at the time that's what it was. I mean I liked, I definitely liked being friends with girls who were like older than me. Kind of like looked up to them kind of like, oh I want to be, you know, so cool like a cool older friend kind of thing yeah and then yeah I remember like either movies would come out or certain maybe like Channing Tatum was starting to get popular or something right and people would just be like oh my god he's so hot. And I was like sure?

Courn:     Are we looking at the same thing?

Chase:     yeah I'm like I guess like okay but you know at the same time I also was not you know taught or told what to feel what it feels like you know any of those things I was just kind of like so definitely lots of crushes on girls the amount of Katy Perry YouTube videos I watched.

Courn:     Okay, Teenage Dream, like that whole album.

Chase:    California Girls.

Courn:    Ooh, that's fair, that's fair.

Chase:     So yeah, back on those iPod Touch days, would watch those in bed. So again, looking back, it's very obvious. And like, I was a very, I mean, it would be described as like tomboy, right? I was like a tomboy growing up as a kid. I don't think that's like a term as much these days. It's more like masc and femme. Tomboy, literally from like probably age like 6 and up, like basketball shorts, like always wanted to be on the boys team, probably because I liked the attention of the girls, but also like, you know, whatever. So, didn't have a full understanding. I definitely had my first like unofficial, very unofficial secret girlfriend.

Courn:     Oh, this is news.

Chase:     Yeah, I think I was like a sophomore because I could drive. I remember having to like drive out to her house. We were just like best friends, teenage friends. And then it absolutely turned into more cuddling and all that fun stuff. So ironically we call ourselves lesbian lovers. But at the time I still said I was straight. Yeah, I'm straight.

Courn:     Yeah. You were lesbian lovers. God. And that wasn't an inside joke. No, it was quite, yeah, it was literally, quite the label of your relationship.

Chase:     Yeah, it was wild. So talk about some confusing feelings at that point. Again, maybe 14, 15, 16 years old. And then from there, just thinking women were so much more beautiful and being like, yeah, yeah. And then trying to date guys, like I didn't date that many guys, which was guised and kind of masked by the church because women are praised in the church for not marrying too early and like serving and like doing all these like sacrificial you know services like ministering and stuff so I kind of just dove into that high accomplishing oldest first child you know first oldest right first child so like the accomplishments of the church probably masked a lot of those feelings but yeah tons of crushes on girls checking them out so fast forward to finishing college I got a big girl job that was my first web design job and that honestly took me away from the church the most and I think that's what really made me realize a lot about myself thankfully that honestly probably saved my life in a lot of ways you know that church that cult. And so at the time someone I was working with, you know, we definitely were flirting and stuff. She was very married at the time. Yeah, we haven't gone into this too much, but it kind of tumbled into a quite a toxic throuple and from there I definitely like was questioning all kinds of stuff pandemic locked us all down and I was like we all broke up I was like I have to end this this cannot continue I this is not happening and I was like screw it I'm gonna get on Tinder and Bumble and just switch to girls and see what happens. And then I was like, oh, I'm gay. Am I gay? Oh shit, I just said I'm gay. Am I gay? I was like, but like all these women on here on I was like, yes, this feels right. So there you go. Came out to myself and I only came out to my family like a year ago. Honestly, they don't officially know I'm married So if they're listening to this somehow surprise!

Courn:     You know, I think I'd be a pretty impressive if they found this.

Chase:     Last piece I think of our identities was like the neurodivergence. How was it getting diagnosed for you? Do you have an official diagnosis?

Courn:     I do not have an official diagnosis. I have a private diagnosis. I did not get put on my official records.

Chase:     I did not know that.

Courn:     Yeah and mainly it's just because the time when I was looking at getting an official diagnosis, I also was like thinking about family planning and other things. And something that came along in my research was that yeah if you get an official diagnosis on your records, it looks really really bad if you want to adopt like it actually excludes you from like over 99% of adoption agencies and it marks you as like mentally ill or incapacitated.

Chase:     Oh no.

Courn:     So yeah I decided not to pursue a formal diagnosis. Like I confirmed it with my therapist and a doctor at the time. I didn't go beyond that because I just didn't see the need to.

Chase:     I never knew that about you.

Courn:     Yeah it's not something I talk about a lot because there's definitely a lot of stigma around it. People feel if you don't have an official diagnosis on your medical records you cannot be autistic. Actually it just means that I didn't want to pay you know upwards to 5000 dollars to get it done because it's pretty easy. I do have an ADHD diagnosis which was really quite easy to get. 

Chase:     I was gonna say we should that'll be a whole topic someday of like the difference of those two diagnoses both just like social impact yeah everything.

Courn:     My doctor was able to get that in a single appointment like a consultation and try to prescribe me ADHD meds the same day.

Chase:     That's how rampant it is.

Courn:     Mind you, I had to talk about like autism for like over a year with my therapist before they'd even consider like consulting me to a doctor about it. So yeah there's a lot of stigma there even though one does not require medication usually. Autism does not give you, there's no treatment plan for autism. But there seems to be one attached to ADHD which is, there's a lot of medication that helps people with ADHD, but I did not need that. 

Chase:     Definitely comes with a lot of,,  yeah, it comes with a lot of, I guess, you pay the price for some of those meds for sure.

Courn:     Yeah yeah but how was your like kind of health care diagnostic experience?

Chase:     Ironically, as a kid my mom almost got me tested.

Courn:     Really?

Chase:     Yeah hyper as hell. I was a hyper kid but also there's a lot of layers of like trauma and like anxiety layered in with that so there's that hyper kid for sure playing constantly like fidgeting for sure but I feel like the word fidgeting wasn't even a thing back in the early 2000s. So my cousins on my dad's side both were diagnosed as boys. So imagine that, oh boys were diagnosed early with ADHD. And as we know sometimes it's hereditary, typically is. I believe my sister got her ADHD diagnosis in middle school or high school, my younger sister. And so from there, it's it's pretty clear. It's pretty clear. So but I don't know if it was too expensive at the time now knowing how expensive it is like I don't know my parents chose not to pursue it. My partner and I were living with a friend at the time and she got diagnosed and it kind of just kicked off all my diagnosis we all forgetting the tiktoks taking the test and you know, we're like, oh The rest of the world. No, this is not. Yeah. Oh, we're oh, okay only a few of us. Okay, so then the diagnosis from there. I wanted to try to medicate because it was impacting my job at one point. Like as a trainer you have to focus a lot of what people say for long periods of  time and there would be times I was just like tapping out. So when you're like I really couldn't like I need to focus So that was what drove me to get my official ADHD diagnosis. Yeah, cost a couple thousand bucks, even with insurance. It was gnarly. The doctor was super cool. And the diagnosis was more like, if you have symptoms to the point where you're like this impacted to get a diagnosis, you should be considered. And so from there, diagnosed, boom. And medication started from there.

Courn:     Yeah. Are you still on medication?

Chase:     Yes. Yeah? Yeah.

Courn:     I feel like that makes sense.

Chase:     I feel like for my line of work right now, I need to be. Yeah. I feel so much better without it. But that's because I'm also on a stimulant and I don't know if I'm gonna stay on a stimulant. Yeah.

Chase:     I have the patience to try anything else though. 

Courn:     I mean, being on depressants is not very much fun either. Yeah. I was on antidepressants for like almost 3 years and I'm now off of them and adjusting to that even is just very odd.

Chase:     Yeah, so yeah, the stimulants aren't great. They don't feel great, but I can focus for a good portion of the day and plan around that. I definitely take my med breaks on the weekends and try to give my system a breather.

Courn:     Yeah, I think it's interesting you mentioned the family connection too, because I mean, it's the same deal for autism and stuff too. And like, I don't wanna diagnose anyone in my family, immediate family, because they would not appreciate that. But I'm like, I don't know. I have many distant relatives who are just so clearly very autistic.

Chase:     Fair. My dad absolutely, I feel like, shows some symptoms. Yeah. Are symptoms, should we call them symptoms?

Courn:     I mean, traits.

Chase:     Traits would be better.

Courn:     Yeah, people don't like the word of symptoms because it's, you know, it sounds like medical jargon for bad.

Chase:     It's like an illness, right, yeah.

Courn:     It's kind of like the same line of saying, like autism spectrum disorder. Attention deficit, like disorder. People don't like that disorder word.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     Which is like a thing that's come up recently but you know. 

Chase:     Traits, traits it is. Yeah, no my dad definitely has some traits. Oh yeah, and I feel like my grand, like his side of the family you can kind of see it through. So yeah. What would you, what are you excited for this podcast what do you think you're looking forward to most?

Courn:     I think about, just I mean aside from just talking to you, because I like the idea of having a scheduled time to talk with you...

Chase:     and like scheduled hangouts.

Courn:     yeah I love that!

Chase:     productive hangouts!

Courn:     yes, I'm just like oh I love being able to talk about this stuff. But I also just think a lot of it's just like the nuance for me. And I mean, I've been on social media talking about a lot of like activism related things for years. I've never really had the bandwidth to do anything that was longer form, more than like a 2 minute video or like a 5 slide post. So just the thought of being able to talk about these topics and have more nuance. And actually talk to someone who's like interested in it, shares a lot of experiences, like I think is very exciting for me. Like there's just so much we can explore here. And I hate to be that person that's like, let's make a podcast and talk about all these things. But I'm like, I'm really jazzed about it.

Chase:     And we have a good niche.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     That's different. We're not just 2 white dudes with a microphone.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     talking about LeBron James.  Yeah, and you know...

Courn:     So we're gonna have to do an episode on LeBron James then. 

Chase:     Gross, no, absolutely not. No men's sports here, Only women's sports.

Courn:     I can get behind that. That's fair. I don't really like any sports, but I am also just like equality, equity, yes, let's put more time in women's sports. So

Chase:     Absolutely. I cannot wait to deep dive and share more info on the disparaging pay of athletes and mental health. That's fair. Yeah.

Courn:     What about you? 

Chase:     Yeah, I mean, I love talking about myself. I'm an Aries.

Courn:     Enough said!

Chase:     Yeah, I'm excited to talk about things that I'm passionate about. Oh, that was tacky. But like there's a certain passion and excitement that you talk about with people who have shared experiences and or learning new things. I'm just excited to learn a lot from you. There's a lot I'm gonna learn, I think. Ooh. You're gonna teach me some things, maybe. I don't know.

Courn:     I don't know.

Chase:     Just having a space to talk about like new, new found values, I guess in a way. Yeah. Like, it's exciting. No one of our friend group wants to talk about, wants to go on a podcast so we were left to it!

Courn:     That's fair, not that this friend group is that large.

Chase:     Yeah,  it's like a new creative outlet I think for us in a way?

Courn:     yeah is it creative?

Courn:     I think, why not? I think creativity can be a million things I think!

Chase:     Yeah I cannot wait to talk about the ADHD snack purge that I did the other day. You know that like buildup of snacks that you just never finish and they're just like half quarter, quarter bag of chips left.

Courn:     And then you got a whole garbage bag full of  unfinished food. 

Chase:    It was gnarly. The little chest it was in was like starting to sway at the bottom because it was so much in there. It's bad. But stuff like that.

Courn:     Yeah that's fair. I think the autistic equivalent is buying like 10 different full-size packages of the same item only to not like it anymore and it not be your safe food. And just have 10 full bags of a very specific chip and it's just sitting in your cabinet haunting you. 

Chase:     You don't want to throw it away.

Courn:     Yeah because they're unopened. I have done things like bring them to food pantries and stuff but sometimes when they're very specific items they don't want them. And if it's stuff that doesn't have super great shelf life which occasionally it is like I was on a freeze-dried fruit kick for a while and that stuff is expensive. I got like 6 bags in my cabinet right now so don't judge me.

Chase:     That's okay. Are they still good? Can I eat them?

Courn:     Yeah. Yeah. That's we can loudly smack on freeze dried fruit during these episodes. Oh gosh. They get stuck in your teeth.

Chase:     Yeah they do. It's like hydrating in your teeth. Correct. Yeah and see like all those like textured ADHD neurodivergent crusts. It's gonna be great. Bond over. Hope to laugh a bit. 

Courn:     Yeah I mean I think we've done that today a bit, at least I have. Yeah. I like laughing at each other's pain. I'm not at our expense.

Chase:     Get ready for some sarcasm.

Courn:     *sighs*

Chase:     the sigh!

Courn:     I'm not good at sarcasm, but yeah.

Chase:     Is it the tism? Yeah? Why?

Courn:     Is that a thing? It is. It's very much.

Chase:     Everyone's listening. Like, yep. All right. See you in the next episode, folks. Bye!

Chase:     Hey folks, a quick disclaimer here. Courn and I speak directly from our own experiences, and while we try our best to amplify marginalized voices and present accurate information, the thoughts expressed here are definitely not a reflection of all neurodivergent, AAPI, or queer folks. So if you have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts, feel free to email us at hello@neurotakespod.com. Thanks!