Episode 9: You can eat hot dogs any day of the year
Chase: Welcome to Neurotakes. This is Chase.
Courn: This is Courn. Let's get into it.
Chase: It wasn't until I turned 21, did I go to my first 4th of July holiday fireworks show. Can you believe that?
Courn: I find that so wild. Like I get that you were in a cult, but I don't know, that one never occurred to me. I don't think you were missing out on much, but I do think that's very odd.
Chase: Yeah, I think right now in my life looking back I'm like, oh I didn't miss that much, but kind of typical like in the moment and like as a younger kid and stuff I was like, this sucks I don't want to miss out on this. I was not even allowed to watch the fireworks at home, like in the neighborhood. Like, like we-
Courn: Not you just hearing it in your room!
Chase: Literally. And then like, we had to like close the blinds because my parents were like, no, if you look at it, that's participating in it.
Courn: Looks up videos of sparklers online. This is the illicit content that Chase was looking up.
Chase: Oh no. Yeah, so there'd be sometimes we could kind of like look out the window and be like, ooh, wow, yeah, fireworks. But like, that's it. Until I was 21 and I lived on my own and I could be like, I'm gonna go watch some fireworks. No one can tell me otherwise.
Courn: Do you remember where the first one you saw was at?
Chase: The waterfront in Portland.
Courn: That's actually the worst fireworks I've ever been to.
Chase: Yeah, it's not great looking back on it, but I thought it was so like, ooh, like, yeah, scandalous. Especially because like I was dating a guy at the time who was in the church. I know. And we went to on this date unchaperoned to go watch the fireworks.
Courn: Ooh, your forbidden comp/het love under the fireworks.
Chase: Yeah there was no one watching out for for our teenage lusting, so we had to, you know, we were just bad to the bone I guess. Gross. But yeah 21! I mean it was cool to watch the fireworks. I enjoy watching fireworks. Like, it's cool in a specific setting where I'm like, oh, I'm coming here to watch fireworks. This is exciting. But like getting caught off guard with just like a firework because the blinds were down, it was just very upsetting and dysregulating as a kid.
Courn: Yeah. I feel like that's the big elephant in the room is that most autistic people, a lot of ADHD people too, really hate fireworks for obvious reasons. They're very loud, very stimulating. I'm like, it's always a twofer for me because visually I'm like very sensory seeking. So I'm like, ooh, I love looking at fireworks. But they're like, if we could just like put them on mute? They're so loud, they're so loud! Like I don't know, I know you didn't grow up seeing fireworks, but I did, because we grew up on the coast, so there was like a big firework show by our house so we go there every year and like camp out the whole day. It was absolutely miserable, I hated being at the beach, I hated being there at night. It was very cold, very loud, worst time of the year, but my whole family loved it.
Chase: It was still cold out at the coast, yeah, in July?
Courn: Yeah, I lived in like Neskowin. That's not like the warm coast. I guess not much of the Oregon coast is...
Chase: Yeah, that's not very warm.
Courn: No, it's not.
Chase: Even when it's like 90 degrees, it's still kind of cool. Like the water's cold, the sand doesn't get that warm.
Courn: Oh yeah, we'd have like one 90 degree day in the summer.
Chase: Really?
Courn: It's mostly like 70s, if it's good and then by the time it's night, it's like 50. So we'd be like really would be huddled up in like thermal jackets watching and I'm like I hate my life. I want to go home, someone just let me go!
Chase: So overstimulated!
Courn: Yeah and that was even before even having any context of like 4th of July being a very weird holiday.
Chase: Right.
Courn: It also just feels so disconnected from the original celebration. Yeah, I think works in its favor. Like I feel like everyone today that's like, oh, yeah, the whole Independence Day thing is kind of weird but like I want to eat hot dogs and like drink beer and hang out with my friends and I'm like, you know-
Chase: Listen to Bruce Springsteen.
Courn: Yeah, you guys can do that any day. Actually I think most people I know who love 4th of July, do that shit every weekend in summer. Like, why I don't know.
Chase: Especially Portland where we don't get that much like good weather and you get like 3 months of sunshine barbecue weather. So you just do that any other time.
Courn: Yeah, so you know, for those who don't know, we can talk a little bit about why July 4th is probably one of the worst holidays.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: Like one-
Chase: Top 3 worst ones for me.
Courn: Yeah, it celebrates an independence of like white men, like quite literally because women didn't have freedom, we're not even talking about people of color, that's a whole another subset - most people are still very much enslaved at this time.
Chase: And if you're new to this podcast, we hate stuff like that!
Courn: Yeah, for obvious reasons!
Chase: I don't know why you wouldn't know that listening to this, but that's really our least favorite thing here.
Courn: Yeah, so it feels like a very weird signifier of freedom. Like, obviously it doesn't include the bulk of the population. So if you like celebrating the freedom of white men, go off. It also is very much a celebration of colonialism and early America, which we know was built on some pretty, pretty nasty ideologies. It uses fireworks for some reason, and they're very loud and bad for the environment.
Chase: Yeah, we gotta pause there, because I never understood how that came into play. My understanding, didn't fireworks start with like the Chinese? Like isn't that originally where it came from?
Courn: I'm not 100% for sure, but I believe you're correct. I know somewhere in Asia, China sounds right for the time period.
Chase: It might not be like the very first, but maybe the first like recordings or like recorded history of it. But like, how did that even come into play? Like how did we go from no fireworks, celebrating to fireworks? How did fireworks get here? This is not a history podcast to really find out, but I think those are my thoughts and opinions about the holiday.
Courn: No, I'm like, I'm probably gonna go Google this after because now I'm curious, because I would just imagine there being fireworks. I know there was like for that time period, there was like, they had some small fireworks, definitely not the fireworks celebration that we're seeing today. I don't think a lot of theirs were visual. They were just like noise stuff.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: But yeah, that's weird how that got really connected. And that's kind of like now the major celebration is fireworks. Like I know we didn't just like win the war and they just set off fireworks, a beautiful hour display. I don't think it was timed out like that.
Chase: No, and I mean, just like any holiday that we, we, that America celebrates, like it's all just these like, bastardized, like capitalism driven versions, so it's not even like the original which that is also probably a salty point for me with all of this.
Courn: Yeah like those fireworks stands that just pop up, like I know it depends on what what state you're in, but they pop up all over Oregon whatever the month's leading up to and like it's insane because my partner's family, like they told me they would spend like you know 500 to like a thousand dollars on fireworks.
Chase: Literally. Yes! Save up on it. People will save up.
Courn: And that's not even that many fireworks.
Chase: No, no. That would maybe be like, what? Half an hour if you kind of space it out, maybe an hour.
Courn: Yeah!
Chase: That's insane. Cause those fireworks only go for like 30 seconds to a minute tops.
Courn: No, and we know they're super bad for the environment. I feel like I've always got the message that it's scary for people with PTSD for very obvious reasons. It's scary to the whole like neurodivergent community. We know it's scary to dogs, which I know white people love their dogs but for some reason they're still setting off fireworks? Make it make sense!
Chase: Do their dogs just not get triggered by these sounds? Cause my dog basically goes like, oh, it's bad. He has like a straight panic attack for days. It's not good. So like, how did their do other dogs just work through it? Are they fine with it? They can't be.
Courn: Yeah. I don't know. It's just like a city versus country thing too because I feel like I never really had to deal with firework noises being that loud till we moved to the city because everyone sets off fireworks around here. But like back in the country, it was like we were distant enough that we didn't hear fireworks.
Chase: Oh!
Courn: I don't know. Our dog growing up was cool with fireworks. One of my dogs is cool with it. But yeah, I hope not scaring your dogs shouldn't be the only reason why you shouldn't put out fireworks, they're scary for a lot of people. But yeah, July 4th is just a really, really weird holiday because, I don't know. It's just like an excuse for people just like wear a bunch of like American flag stuff and like get this whole idea of patriotism that really has nothing to do with it. I don't know. I just feel like I have this bigger idea that I feel like patriotism and nationalism is really just an excuse for people to, I don't know, create culture that they don't have. Like, I think a lot of white people, they don't know their cultural background or it's like not as exciting being like, oh, I came from Germany and that's a whole another topic.
Chase: That's a hot take right there, folks! I love that!
Courn: They wanna create a culture like around the American flag and early colonialism, which is like not a hot thing to make your culture around. Like us-
Chase: It's also kind of weak!
Courn: It is. It's really, it's literally just like the flag.
Chase: Like that's the best you got. Not even like, yeah, that's a great point.
Courn: Like people are like overly patriotic. It's literally connection to like, I love the flag. I love God. I love the vets. And I don't know why these concepts all get connected. And it's because like literally patriotism really is approval for the war system for the war machine, colonialism, current colonialism that the US is still doing.
Chase: Yeah. Created to create - or wow. Put in place to allow society to be like excusing and accepting these horrible acts of violence.
Courn: Yeah, and it's literally built on the backbones of like Black and brown people.
Chase: *sing song* Indigenous.
Courn: Without acknowledging any of their work. So it's a weird thing to like be fixated on.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: And I think that's why so many young people feel such a weird thing about the American flag. Like I know I feel that. Like I, it makes me feel icky. Like it's not supposed to be a hate symbol.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: But it gets conflated with a hate symbol just because like almost every act of violence of extremism is all tied to nationality in the U.S. And that's weird. Like that's, a that's a pattern we need to talk about.
Chase: You unpacked so many good points here! Yeah, gosh, where do I even start back with all the good points you just said. Dang, that was awesome.
Chase: I don't know if the American Pyrotechnics Association is a valid source of information, but I did a quick Google search because I was curious about fireworks. But basically they started once gunpowder became like you know invented I guess right and like gunpowder then accidentally became a firework-
Courn: My AP world history is activating!
Chase: Yeah, yeah, so like there's that and again we'll put this in the show notes. We are not a history education podcast, but for those curious, that's where this is going. Essentially, it made its way to Europe and then Europe to America. Europe was like the first to kind of like manufacture and like send out I think like-
Courn: Is there a time period on that?
Chase: It says between the 13th century and 15th century.
Courn: Okay that shit was there a while. Okay, they might have had fireworks. On the day.
Chase: Yeah. Well, yeah, I imagine if it came over from Europe because they brought everything from Europe and then we're like, look at us, we're unique, we're so special. But like, that's not it. They just brought it over to America. So there's that. And then it just, it just says that like, US settlers brought their love of fireworks to the new world and then like I'm not there's not much details from there it just kind of goes in from so!
Courn: Then it became an American thing cuz that's what Americans do! We steal people's culture and say it's our own!
Chase: They just bring it over! And take credit! Great, so there's that piece. You also had a really good point about the patriotism and just like the flag obsession. Like Americans have this whole like flag code and like rules and respect around the flag, yet like half of them don't do it ever. More than half. No one do it.
Courn: They wear the flag, and I know that's a violation!
Chase: They wear it! They put it out when it rains. Like they don't fold it up nicely. It's all tattered and fucked up. And like, that's not all supposed to happen either. Like I thought every time you're supposed to fold in a little triangle and like do all that shit. No, just throw it in the bin for next year. So like that stuff also is just weird. Like-
Courn: Yeah, I feel like when you're only using a flag, I feel like to symbolize the things you want it to when it encompasses so much more that feels so intentional, intentionally misused.
Chase: Could there be any better symbolism used to represent what's important? Like, I feel like a lot of cultures have symbols and creatures and things and this, like America has the flag.
Courn: Yeah!
Chase: Like no one could, no other country is like, look at our flag, we're so proud of this flag, like that's the best we got.
Courn: Yeah, I feel like I've heard that a lot from like international critique it's just like the obsession I think with like Americans putting flags on everything. Like I know there's definitely like a sense of patriotism in a lot of other countries, but just, it's a unique thing anywhere you go that American flag stuff is just everywhere. Like, I don't know, it's just like on every house in certain neighborhoods. It's very weird. Like it feels like, I don't know, dystopian to me and it shouldn't, but it does.
Chase: It does! It does. because no other country do you go there and they're like a bunch of people have the flag for their own country out.
Courn: Yeah it feels like a weird virtue signal.
Chase: Like we know we're in America we know the country we're in.
Courn: Yeah. I don't know, I don't know!
Chase: Like we don't need to put multiple flags up. You know what also drives me crazy is when car dealerships put up those massive flags. Car dealerships and I feel like RV dealerships always have like 100 foot flags on like a massive flagpole and like Those are the two places that hang giant flags. And sports.
Courn: Yep.
Chase: Sports, I guess, has a flag.
Courn: Yep.
Chase: Why? I have no idea.
Courn: Everything has flags. It's just weird.
Chase: It is weird.
Courn: I know, that's just like a very uniquely US thing, is that patriotism is built into like the school system. It's built into the sports system. It's built into media. It's just so normalized that you don't think twice about it until you go to other countries and like you don't see flags. Like the only time you're going to see a flag is like in a gift shop.
Chase: Yeah. And even then.
Courn: Yeah, I just don't get the obsession with flags, or just like flags in general. They're weird to me. I also like don't, maybe I'm just not the right person to have the understanding to be like, oh, this, this, you know, stripe represents that and those stars represent that. And like, I hear that about any flag and I'm like, cool. It's just a bunch of lines.
Chase: Courn, Courn. Be honest, is this just because you're from Korea and Korea doesn't have a good flag?
Courn: Okay, South Korea has a cool flag. Don't out me, that shit looks cool.
Chase: It does actually look cool. Y'all got a good flag.
Courn: Yeah, yeah, the little like pews at the side.
Chase: Yeah, the pews? Yeah, that's fair.
Courn: I think flag design is so weird and I know people like dedicate their whole life to it and I don't really understand super like abstract symbolism but I'm like cool, if you like that use it. I don't know, people say stuff about like pride flags and stuff too That this represents that and this represents that and I'm like cool.
Chase: I didn't realize we had such stark opinions on flags. This is great. We could have done a whole episode just on flags!
Courn: I'm a flag hater, respectfully!
Chase: Apparently we got some flag opinions!
Courn: I think, it's, there's too many things to consolidate down to a couple of colors on a rectangle. That's my hot take.
Chase: Absolutely. But then like just the extreme level gets taken. Like you got a flag, cool, you want to, whatever. But like, the same is not said for the pride flags.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: So like, I think it's just that imbalance of like theirs is so fine and like other people's it's not, it's the exclusion, right? And it's like creating those like tiers of control and power and like what's it, what's in society when you have like... classes! It's like creating classes and powers. Yeah, the patriotism piece and the nationalism piece is weird because like you're right it does just feel like it's excusing all the bullshit and like trying to like make light of all of the gross acts of violence.
Courn: Yeah it's also just like I don't understand like when I talk to people who are like really into nationalism and patriotism and like pretty much those words have become synonymous with like racism for very valid reasons. It's like when you look at the fundamental core beliefs that they have, like why do they feel like they're heavy nationalists, why they love their country so much, it gets really weird really quick. Like, I like how America was founded and you're like, oh, on enslaved people? On indigenous violence? On conquering other people when we shouldn't have? Like, it's just a very weird slippery slope that I'm like, you really like that? That's a red flag to me. Like, you like that we killed people? Like-
Chase: Like murdered and destroyed families and villages and like entire groups of people, families, children, all this stuff.
Courn: Yeah, like it just feels like a very, like I feel like people don't explicitly say like, oh, I love colonialism, but that's what you're saying when you say I love America's roots.
Chase: Hot take, when someone says something patriotic, we should just come back and be like, oh, so colonialism, racism, you're cool with that?
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: That's what I'm hearing. And they're like, no, no, no, no, I said.
Courn: Yeah, but most conservative people like haven't really demonized the word colonialism. Like that's a positive word. You're like, oh, colonial times. I love when we were just killing other people.
Chase: Look where we came from. There's this whole like narrative and like almost like a fetish around just like where you came from and now how you got here. Even if it is bad there's always going to be a positive spin on it when it's not in fact positive whatsoever.
Courn: Yeah that's why I think the nationalists, like they talk about I don't know, the funding of America they think it's like an inspirational story - it's not!
Chase: It's not!
Courn: It's not for anyone!
Chase: It's actually quite cowardly when you think about it.
Courn: It's freaking terrifying, it's disgusting, like you need to tell that history, but I'm just like it's not something I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, we did that, yeah! Like no!
Chase: Yeah, oh no, I agree!
Courn: And I mean fourth of july isn't the only holiday. It's one of many that make people feel very icky. I mean, Thanksgiving, if we want to talk about the genocide of Native people.
Chase: I think Thanksgiving is the number one that gets me. That makes me like really, really angry. Columbus Day obviously is up there as well.
Courn: That one's mostly, that one's largely like not being used anymore.
Chase: Correct.
Courn: I can have all conversation on why switching it to Indigenous Peoples Day feels weird and icky and still celebrating that day. But the Thanksgiving one gets me because I think people use that same excuse. They're just like, oh, well, I just want to get the family together.
Courn: I want to have a big meal. Literally do it any other day.
Chase: I, I, I. Me, me, me. I, I, I. I just want to have fun.
Courn: Yeah, I get it. It's a tradition. I like things happening the same time every year, but like just do it a different weekend and it will make all of your indigenous friends feel a lot better because it's kind of gross.
Chase: Oh yeah we make we go out of our way to make like Hawaiian food for that day and just like-
Courn: Love that!
Chase: Yeah it's a good time. So Thanksgiving is definitely one of my top worst ones but Fourth of July is easily top three as well. I mean let's go into Juneteenth while we're at it.
Courn: Yeah, I mean a lot of people say that like Juneteenth should be the day that we're celebrating-
Chase: Not July 4th.
Courn: Yeah, the actual independence because it includes when the Emancipation Proclamation finally reached Texas, Which isn't the official day that enslaved people actually became free. But it started off that process. So a lot of people say that we should have that day celebrated instead and it became a federal holiday I think 3 years ago. And I think, it's like that idea was really great to me, the history, it's definitely something we should all talk about, but there's something that is just a certain irony and the fact that like most white people now have Juneteenth off.
Chase: Correct.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: I didn't have it off today.
Courn: Yeah, I mean I work by myself. Yeah. I feel like I have to work. I feel like that's my part. I shouldn't take the day off unless I'm actually doing shit for Black communities.
Chase: Well, it's really only the big corporations that can afford to give people the day off. I don't know. Smaller businesses and people who can't really afford to take that day off unpaid don't take that day off. I don't know.
Courn: Correct.
Chase: I also, living here in the Northwest, we never talked about the history behind this. Like it literally wasn't until it was discussed of becoming a federal holiday, did I even hear about what it was. And I was like, what is it? What? It's like, no way. Is this new? And then I was like, oh, no. This is not new. Oh, no.
Courn: Not at all. No, until I literally started working in the activism space, like my first year, like as soon as June rolled around. Juneteenth stuff. And I was like, I really didn't know what that was and that's embarrassing.
Chase: Oh yeah, it's horrible.
Courn: And that was only like 5 years ago.
Chase: Oh yeah.
Courn: Because that's how bad the public education system is.
Chase: Yeah. Yeah. But like 4th of July gets this huge spotlight but like Juneteenth doesn't.
Courn: Yeah and I'm just like I don't know, that's 90 years later. It's still a long time ago in the past. Why can't we just celebrate that instead? But it's also just like that, I don't know, the commodification of holidays is also a problem. Like I think we need more resources and education for Juneteenth. Like we need reparations. Like we need actual sustainable movements towards Black liberation instead of being like, oh yeah, remember that horrible thing that happened and we finally got rid of it? Let's make a holiday.
Chase: Let's now design party plates and hats with red, green, yellow, and black and hope you buy it.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: That's enough. That's enough. You'll be grateful. Be grateful that we're celebrating it.
Courn: Yeah, it's also just like one of those holidays and I'm just like as a white person, you really shouldn't be celebrating in the same way.
Chase: But also how you celebrate says a lot, right? Like I've known Black people who celebrate with their families who are from Texas and or live there or like still live there whatever and who would like literally get together with their family, like recount memories, like eat special foods, and do that piece and like that feels great.
Courn: There's a rich culture.
Chase: Versus now it's just another excuse to party and that literally feels like every American holiday.
Courn: Yeah that's why I'm curious how it's gonna evolve the next few years because I feel like I haven't seen people like doing big celebrations for but, now-
Chase: That's absolutely gonna become that, mark this dow, this time, we're gonna come back to this in a few years and be right because like it why wouldn't it. Like it's another excuse for people to be like, oh my gosh, we're gonna give you a discount, come shop with us, or come buy stuff here, like come here do that, like rather than just being like hey, here's a day off please go like reconnect with your family, recharge, take a break. Never.
Courn: Yeah, I guess I'm curious, cause I'm just like, there's obviously a rich culture and celebration of getting together for Juneteenth and Black communities and the food and traditions. Yeah, I hope white people just don't start doing that and forget where it came from because we kind of have a bad track record with that. Respectfully.
Chase: Truly. Truly. And I think that's what makes me the most salty though. It's like all holidays are just excuses and I would love for them to be more community oriented and like just a day to reconnect with your community, recharge, like reflect on where you're at, where you've been, like you know, how do we want to better ourselves as a society and like get more enjoyment out of life versus just like, and that kind of pride to me feels a little more justified and right and good, I guess is the right way to put it and that's my that can just be my take, but instead it's just like tequila shots and bikinis and you know-
Courn: Correct! That's every american holiday, somehow drinking, food, all gets attached to it!
Chase: It's so much drinking! Did you do any holiday celebrating during COVID and the pandemic lockdown?
Courn: Unfortunately, yes.
Chase: Oh, do tell.
Courn: Well, I feel like I have a lot of family obligations and stuff, so they are very much like, oh we have to do the get-together and I'm like people are literally dying and most my family did not care. I mean for complete transparency, like they were completely unmasked for almost the majority of COVID. Even when stuff was enforced.
Chase: Oh really? Of course they were. Why was I thinking that they were masked?
Courn: Yeah and I'm not like trying to call them out specifically but...
Chase: Oh no we are.
Courn: It was pretty bad. But we did like masked holidays all of 2020. So we got together for Christmas and we didn't eat or do anything, they're all unmasked and thought we were being very dramatic.
Chase: By masking up?
Courn: Yes, and like my family's very much into holidays like, we don't live as close to each other as we used to, like we're now all within the same state, so it's a little bit easier. So I just would grin and bear it and just distance myself two weeks after and not go to work or do things.
Chase: God, and you know they didn't. They just carried on with their merry lives.
Courn: No, they're sick all the time. And I think the thing that gets with me is just like, I don't, even right now we are having one of the highest ticks in COVID cases. They're looking at wastewater reports and they are so bad right now. And it directly correlates to whenever there is major holiday. So I just know after July 4th, wastewater levels of COVID going through the roof, Like people are so irresponsible. They're like, oh I'm outside. It's okay. Even though we've proven that yes, it's harder to get COVID outside, it spreads and stays in the outside air for a long time too. So yes, if you're in a crowded area that is outside with lots and lots of people, you should be mindful. So that's also just why I feel like these holidays feel extra weird right now. And I get that people want to celebrate and do things. You can still go out and do safe activities. You can be masked. You can distance after them.
Chase: Like in the words of the J-dubs, you can celebrate the holiday and have candy any other time of the year and get presents any other time of the year.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: That's like how I grew up.
Courn: Never thought I would agree with them.
Chase: That's right, there you go. I mean, it's true though. It's strange to like need such an excuse to get together and like exchange gifts or or celebrate with food or do whatever like it's got to be these massive things you can't just be like, hey this is the thing we want to do but like you said ,you also find comfort in some of the routine with that and there is some like there's value in that as well but like that can't be the only thing?
Courn: Yeah, also I get together with my family a lot, respectfully, outside of holidays. We see each other like at least once a month. So I'm like, we could do this anytime. But my mom's really big on holidays and stuff. She's a Midwest girl. She loves that shit. She loves any excuse to make food. I get it, but it's just too hard to explain to a lot of my family. I mean, they know that these holidays are problematic, but it's just like, it's easier.
Chase: Oh yeah, ignorance is bliss.
Courn: It's easier to post your Thanksgiving pic and be like, yeah great time, we're so thankful for our family and it's like, okay.
Chase: That really gets my goat. Yeah, so thankful for all these amazing people, Do you want to thank the indigenous people whose land you're freaking standing on?
Courn: Correct.
Chase: No, we don't want to talk about that.
Courn: Not at all.
Chase: It is just very selfish, right? And it's a very like individualistic mindset and that's like all of America, I feel like.
Courn: Yeah, well, like people are just like the thought of like giving up a holiday that doesn't even matter that much to a person. Like in the grand scheme of things, it is so insignificant of all the things that you could give up. Someone's like don't get together for Thanksgiving. Okay, yeah, it's not that big of a deal and I get that a lot of people are really like holding on to any normalcy saying that we're post-covid - we're not! So people just want these excuses to do really grand holidays with family and friends, you can do it any time, get together with your family and friends!
Chase: Yeah, like guess what? You can make any day a special day.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: We should make June 9th a special day because it's 69.
Courn: I was like, where are you going with this? Don't want to compete with Juneteenth. Too close.
Chase: No, that is too close. I did think about that. I was like damn, June 9th. Oh well.
Courn: We can just do it on my birthday and it's Gemini Day.
Chase: Okayyyy!
Chase: It's much funnier because I really don't like that stuff.
Chase: Yeah, it's kind of ironic. It's ironic. What else? Oh, the selfishness of the holiday. I mean, the capitalism layer behind it all. The fact that collectively the days off from work are around these holidays. There aren't just other days off that you can take with other people because I think that is a big draw, right? It's like Thanksgiving, it's like everyone gets this time off. You don't necessarily have to like take the time off from work. You get PTO, for some people, or like you're not going to miss a lot of work. You're not likely to be at risk for getting fired for taking time off during this time. This is kind of like the society-wide understanding that you're just taking time away, but it's always centered around these things rather than just like, hey, you should take a day off because you work a lot.
Courn: Yeah, correct.
Chase: Like it has to be centered around this and there's no other time that's that's given cause I think about that. Like if, let's say your family is like okay, yeah we're not gonna celebrate Thanksgiving this year, instead we're gonna take the first week of November off together as a family. Okay, well like now you still got a request PTO and you want like, there's so many other steps that it would just be so much harder. I don't know where I was going with that other than the capitalist piece sucks and I hate it and it just makes it that's more complicated.
Courn: Yeah, well it forces you to sit there in that time off and if that's the only time off you get, you're more inclined to be like, oh I want to spend it doing something fun and then it's like, oh well it becomes easier to be like, oh I'm gonna go to 4th of July stuff even though I don't you know care about that but like I have the day off, so like I should do something and that kind of like-
Chase: Do something. Spend money.
Courn: Yeah. That kind of justifies.
Chase: Yeah. Yeah. There it is. And there's another point you went back on, like, we're gonna overwork you the whole rest of the year because we give you two weeks off for Christmas or we give you two weeks for Christmas and New Year's or something. It's like, so you have to work really hard these all these other times because we give this to you.
Courn: Correct.
Chase: Like, what?
Courn: Yeah, I just like holiday culture is really weird.
Chase: Holiday culture is weird.
Courn: It is feels like the only time you can get time off.
Chase: I would be so interested to hear other people's experiences with holidays outside of the U.S. for whatever holiday it may be.
Courn: Yeah, I mean they have lots of holidays and stuff other places but yeah it's hard to compare when I don't have that experience.
Chase: Yeah, me neither, we gotta ask people!
Courn: I do think the commodification thing is very-
Chase: That's such a good big fancy word, commodification! It's good, go off!
Courn: I think it's stronger in the U.S. and that goes for anything. But just every holiday is an excuse for every single store to theme everything around it. Like it is a billion dollar industry of like buying decor and different things.
Chase: Oh yeah. How many like Memorial Day weekend sales, Father's Day sales, there's always sales around these holidays.
Courn: Yeah! And it's like, I'm not gonna lie, I really always loved like Christmas decor and I think it's taken me a lot to like acknowledge that that's kind of like a really toxic thing to be really into because it plays into a lot of hyper capitalism of stuff that you only use for like a month a year. So my hot take is that you should put your Christmas tree out all year. I keep mine up for like 5 months to get the use out of it. Sooo.
Chase: Reusable one? Fake tree?
Courn: I do have a fake tree. Although it takes 5 to 6 years to counter whatever the amount of energy that it would take to like cut down a real tree. So when people say you're using a fake tree you're being sustainable, not quite true.
Chase: Only if you hold on to it for a certain amount of years.
Courn: Yeah!
Chase: But it doesn't make up for the fact that you have a massive diesel truck with like 6 wheels and 2 kinks and stuff.
Courn: Correct. The overconsumption I think is just a bigger topic that's prevalent everywhere, especially in America. But it's like, we just have a reason to buy anything and everything. Like why do you have to buy a special fit for the 4th of July? People are wild.
Chase: Well, yeah, and like ugly Christmas sweaters for holidays like-
Courn: Yeah, I mean we have a box for different holidays for different decor.
Chase: Oh yeah.
Courn: We had like 10 boxes in our garage, it's pretty insane.
Chase: Oh my goodness.
Courn: Like every time, it's a get the different stuff out get the different seasonal stuff out and it's just like what?
Chase: Well, yeah do you like, I don't know, do you have any trauma surrounding the holidays that makes you now don't want to celebrate them? Or have you modified a holiday celebration in some way for your family now like your like your household now to make it what you want?
Courn: Oh yeah. I mean I have a lot of trauma around holidays and spending just cause like growing up in an abusive environment and stuff. And it definitely puts on display when you're stuck home with relatives that you're not usually stuck with for extended periods of time. Yeah. As an adult, I do not spend multiple days with family members. And like, even though we're cool and stuff, I do not want to stay in the same lodging as you. Like, I need to go back to my own space. I'm sorry. Like, that's just not going to happen. I'm not inviting that opportunity to like be harassed, to be uncomfortable. Especially just like as an autistic neurodivergent person, they don't understand that. And they're always like making really weird schedules for holidays, putting a lot of activities that are like not good for me. Like, they're just like, oh, let's go, lay on a lazy river for 6 hours and then go to a brewery after and then go out after that. And I'm like-
Chase: It's a lot of drinking.
Courn: Yeah, I don't even drink. So I'm just like-
Chase: Maybe that's why you don't enjoy the holiday?
Courn: Yeah, I'm gonna do one activity and going home.
Chase: That's it. One and done.
Courn: Yeah. I'm like my max for a day is like 2 activities. If they're small activities. I don't know about you, how you like manage holidays and stuff. I know it's different since you're not in contact with a lot of your family.
Chase: Well, and I didn't grow up with like those memories being made of being with your family. So I could see that. I mean, my family and like larger extended family did get together for like anniversaries. I feel like that was like the one thing Jdubs are allowed to celebrate it's like so-and-so's wedding anniversary and-
Courn: That's an excuse to hang out, that's so weird! I've never celebrated that-
Chase: Yeah, so but like also like Jdubs get together so much for so often, so it's like not that special but like nowadays, yeah I think like my wife and I are on the same page about intentionally choosing which holidays to celebrate and how we want to celebrate them, which is really cool! Like, we don't really do any of the typical stuff and we just use the day to like reconnect and try not to chore and like that's the other thing. I feel like in the past, a day off it was like, oh I gotta go do this errand, I gotta go to the doctor, I go do it, like we try to just like intentionally be like, nope this is an extra day you're not gonna work, like maybe we'll get some special snacks and like do some stuff because obviously culturally like celebrating with food is so common, but yeah, I think that's kind of how we modify it now. And it honestly feels so good. It's no, like I used to stress so much about making sure like we had a big celebration and spent and did all this stuff. Cause like, I didn't do that, but I knew it was important for other people. Not me.
Courn: Takes so much pressure off!
Chase: Not me people pleasing, but now I'm just kind of like, oh yeah we just chill at home and make what make food with what we want or we go sit outside or you know we might go find like some water to go hang out at but it's so much less stressful and that's what I'm here for.
Courn: I love that I'm like I'll show up for an hour. I'm out.
Chase: Yeah, yeah.
Courn: I do my duty but I used to just spend like days stressing over family get-togethers.
Chase: And how many holidays are so stressful for people and they're like, oh my gosh, like I gotta do this and I gotta do that and like they have all these organizings and like you're in charge of this and you're like it's like never a fun, like people are not excited for these holidays typically.
Courn: No, we would like deep clean our house for like a week to have people over. I'm like that's not fun, but like that's what I had to do in order to have people over. I was like, oh maybe my mom will make a comment that it's kind of dirty.
Chase: Yeah. Yeah and especially now like with our dog like he is really bad with the fireworks and any loud booming sounds. We have to medicate him a day or two before, honestly, so he's not like stressed. Because you know fireworks go off earlier than 4th of July.
Courn: They go for like months after. People are so wild about fireworks.
Chase: Yeah and like I never understood that piece until I like had a dog and I was like oh this is really fucked up, we gotta stop, like fireworks are not good. That's not good because he like I said he just gets dysregulated like crazy, like it's stressful for him, he's not eating like, he doesn't understand what's going on. Yeah, poor buddy was because he was left outside in an Oklahoma thunderstorm chained, chained up outside so like he's got some PTSD. But like-
Courn: That's so valid!
Chase: But like you know, he don't understand, so we got to try to medicate and do all that stuff but it's just it's so stressful but, do you do anything for your dogs?
Courn: I mean we've only had Chappi a couple years and-
Chase: She's so cute!
Courn: Yeah she's absolutely terrified of everything, so we usually medicate her, she's medicated a lot because she gets very stressed out about things. Adobe is stupid. He doesn't do any of that stuff. He doesn't really care.
Chase: Freaking Bean!
Courn: But I'm like, we stay inside. But our neighborhood's like, you don't hear the big fireworks around because we're not by the waterfront or anything. But there's a lot of people in our neighborhood who let out small stuff. But I just think it's so funny that I feel like the dog thing comes up so often and like I think it's a valid reason but I'm also just like why can we like empathize and be like, oh yeah it's terrifying for dogs, but I'm like it's also terrifying for a lot of people.
Chase: And that should be the more important thing.
Courn: Yeah, I'm not saying dogs are less important, but like respectfully-
Chase: At least equal?
Courn: There's a high percentage of people who do not do well with fireworks. And that's never like a reason why like, I've heard some like I don't know advocacy for like people who are like war veterans, PTSD, but I'm like I never really talked about advocacy for autistic people. They're just kind of like, chill in your homes-
Chase: Figure it out!
Courn: Yeah, wear headphones.
Chase: Too bad.
Courn: That stuff is so loud.
Chase: It's, yeah.
Courn: I genuinely hate it.
Chase: They, speaking of fireworks, they started doing fireworks at the Thorns games, but we didn't know it until all of a sudden, we're sitting there and like it's a small stadium folks like it only holds like 30 some thousand people, which is not that big for a sports stadium. And like all of a sudden we're just sitting there talking and then you just hear, *PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW*!
Courn: No!!
Chase: Like Jess, freaking it was so stressful because like it was caught off guard even I was like, oh shit!
Courn: The way I would just cry!
Chase: Yeah it was rough, and so stuff like that. I'm like like there's no warning for anything even an event like that, be like in 5 minutes we're gonna have the fireworks show! Like nothing. I'm gonna email them - accessibility!
Courn: As you should, that's actually kind of horrible!
Chase: Yeah like you see them setting up now, we know to look for it but like how stressful? Yeah, we really should talk about that piece and just like how hard it is for disabled folks. I'm sure it's not easy.
Courn: It's definitely not and there's just like not a lot of ways to avoid it. People just be like, just don't go to firework celebrations. If you live in the city, like, you can hear it everywhere. People go off in your neighborhood for no freaking reason.
Chase: If you have to start the sentence with just, guess what? Don't say it. It's invalidating.
Courn: Yeah, maybe I'm just like a Karen but I'm also just like - noise pollution! I don't think you should be able to make noises that like I can hear from inside my dwelling and I feel that way about anything. I fucking hate yard work and shit I hate when my neighbors are just doing loud leaf blowing for hours.
Chase: *loud yard work noises* Yeah, that's terrible.
Courn: We are in 2024. Can we not make a quieter leaf blower? Respectfully, you are terrorizing me in my home.
Chase: Did you know Portland passed a law? Like Oregon passed that law where like all motorized landscaping stuff is going to be outlawed within a few years. Like you have to have a battery operated or electric.
Courn: No, I haven't heard that.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: Please.
Chase: Yeah, I'll have to find the article and I'll put in the show notes. But like, yeah, for real. As someone who has an electric mower, it was great until my battery started dying and I can't mow my lawn. And I'm like, okay, well, this is annoying, but I see both sides.
Courn: But I'm like, also, if you're gonna do that, are you gonna give people money to buy new stuff? Cause that shit's expensive.
Chase: No, no. It's just gonna go off.
Courn: And I imagine that would make it very hard for landscapers to do their job.
Chase: Oh yeah.
Courn: Because the electric tools are, I don't know a lot about them, but I know they're not as good just from the shit we've bought.
Chase: They're not that good and like corded stuff is dangerous.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: Like it has more power but that's dangerous. You're gonna cut the power on that. Yeah. No and it's gonna make it really inaccessible for certain people because I imagine it's more expensive to get batteries and like you have to get multiple batteries versus just like buying gas for those things, so anyways that's a tangent
Courn: There's no winning!
Chase: Nope, nope!
Courn: Just don't do yard work, let the land do its thing!
Chase: We let the land be all natural!
Courn: Stop watering your grass, that's not natural If it needs water every day out of a hose, it's not meant to be there.
Chase: Correct. And that's a hot take to end on.
Courn: Turn those sprinklers off!
Chase: Oh, speaking of, I gotta go turn my sprinkler off.
Courn: Okay.
Chase: Bye!
Courn: Bye!
Chase: Hey folks, a quick disclaimer here. Courn and I speak directly from our own experiences. And while we try our best to amplify marginalized voices and present accurate information, the thoughts expressed here are definitely not a reflection of all neurodivergent, AAPI, or queer folks. So if you have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts, feel free to email us at hello@neurotakespod.com. Thanks!