Episode 18: The idea of being an adult is cool?
Chase: Welcome to Neurotakes, I'm Chase!
Courn: This is Courn!
Chase: Let's get into it! Today's episode is about adulting. Freaking cringe.
Courn: *ughhhh* That’s fair!
Chase: I hate that word, I don't like that word.
Courn: It is very, it's very millennial. And I mean that respectfully as someone who is like, I don't know, a very old Gen Z who said that 5 to 10 years ago. Yeah don't say it.
Chase: That's pretty rough.
Courn: Adulting.
Chase: But also being an adult is garbage.
Courn: It really is.
Chase: I was in such a rush to grow up.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: And there's definitely moments, not everything is terrible. Like obviously it's nice to be an autonomous adult, but like, dang, there's a lot of hard challenges being an adult, especially an ADHD adult.
Courn: Agree.
Chase: Especially a queer adult.
Courn: All the things!
Chase: Especially a queer person of color.
Courn: I think the thing is that I think adulthood is just like so over hyped and I don't know, if it's just my own perception or that's the media perception, but I feel like, I don't know, or maybe I feel like also like your parents and people around you kind of weaponize being a child like, oh like you can't do this because you're a child, or like you know my house, my rules, I'll respect you you know when you're an adult and-
Chase: Guess what now we're adults, and we're still not respected
Courn: Correct.
Chase: Hot take! *laughs*
Courn: Correct! but I think the worst thing about it is that like I don't know I didn't particularly enjoy my childhood I don't have a lot of fond memories from my childhood, so I didn't even like it that much but I still look back and I'm like, oh that was so nice when I didn't have to pay bills. I wish I could go back and like thoroughly enjoy it and then become an adult.
Chase: Yeah, I was giving my aunt a hard time about that because my cousin is like what would maybe be seen by society as like a lazy teenager, when I was like, dang you're gonna make him get a job yet and she was like honestly, no, I'm like I'm gonna wait till he's 18 so he can just kind of enjoy being a kid cuz I didn't enjoy being a teenager and like a kid, she's like when he's like 18, I'll like encourage him, like support him and get a job, but she was like just gonna let him be a kid and I was like *breathes repeatedly*
Courn: What? Is this healing?
Chase: I’m kind of angry!
Courn: Intergenerational trauma?!
Chase: Yeah. Yeah! I was like kind of angry but kind of sad, but kind of happy. I was like wow, so yeah.
Courn: Yeah, we're just so quick grow up. I don't know, and I feel like society makes you want to grow up, it's like I don't know I wanted money so I started working as soon as I could and got a job and-
Chase: Yeah, but money represents freedom and freedom is fake. It's, it's not real in a way.
Courn: Yeah, I mean it's to a limit.
Chase: Yes and because it does provide freedom and like autonomy and stuff for sure. I'm not saying absolutes here.
Courn: You know you're living at home and then you go you know to your job and then you know you don't make that much but when it's all you have your money to spend on, you don’t have to pay rent, you don’t have to worry about food. I felt like such a big baller, like senior year of high school, having like 3 different jobs and being like, okay-
Chase: Like you made like a thousand dollars that month and you're like, ohhhh!
Courn: I made $2,000 a month and I was like, oh shoot, we're going shopping! We're going to Wet Seal right now!
Chase: Not Wet Seal.
Courn: I'm getting the full price items, no sale.
Chase: Appetizer, soda, dessert.
Courn: We're stopping by Dairy Queen and getting 2-
Chase: Large!
Courn: Star-kissed popsicles.
Chase: Extra large.
Courn: Yeah. Chicken tender basket on me guys.
Chase: I don't need gas money. I got paid. Oh those were the simpler times though. Why do you feel like lately it's been hard to be an adult What's been on your mind?
Courn: I mean, a million things.
Chase: Go off.
Courn: I think my biggest things, I think no one just properly prepped me about what it means to just work for the bulk of your life. And that's all your life really is. Like it feels like you live to work, you work to live. It just feels like a cycle. Like I don't know, I know there's more things to life than that, but when it is where you're spending, at least for me, 40 hours a week-
Chase: So much!
Courn: I spend another good like 20 hours just like thinking about work. To what? To just exist? To pay rent? Like, it just feels very weird to me. It's like, is that all I am contributing? I'm just another person working and that's that's how society works.
Chase: Well, yeah.
Courn: I just can't just enjoy life. Like I just, yeah, I don't know. I'm just envious. I just want to not work. I don't think that's such insane of a topic. But I just like, man, I want to enjoy life. Not just for the 1 week I get a year that I can physically afford, but I don't know, maybe at least once a month. It’s a balance.
Chase: Oh yeah, I mean that phrase, like, are you living to work, are you working to live? Like, honestly, it's so corny, and I don't always like those corny phrases, but it kinda, somebody said it to me like 6 months ago, and it kinda hit me, cause I was like, oh, it's really true. I am literally just living to work. I'm literally not enjoying anything else in my life and quality of life goes down. But you're also working coming from what? No money inheritance. You haven't really inherited anything from your parents. You don't have any of those advantages that some people would have that makes life enjoyable, making work a little more enjoyable maybe.
Courn: I mean, I'd argue a little bit against that. I think I came for a pretty like financially privileged background I'd say. I mean we had good money growing up. I mean they supported me like in some ways going through college and stuff, but do I have a fat inheritance?
Chase: That's what I'm saying. That specific part.
Courn: No, did they help me get my first place after college? No.
Chase: That's what I’m getting at! Yeah.
Courn: I bought a house on my own. I got my first job on my own. All of those support systems were super big and like definitely a privilege but yeah, I'm just envious man. I see people, just I don't know, living life and I'm not even mad at them.
Chase: Must be nice!
Courn: I'm like it must just be nice just to you know be like, I'm going, I don't even know, why I got so envious of a literal, like I don't know, child being like oh yeah we're going on a trip to like Europe this summer and I was like, oh yeah and I was like, oh yeah that must be so cool you're going with your partner or something and that's how I found out they were like 19.
Chase: Oh.
Courn: Because they're at the hair place I go to and they were just like oh, yeah they're like yeah we're going on this big trip it's so cool and they're like yeah I'm going with my parents we go every summer and I was just like oh-
Chase: Wow.
Courn: Like a three-week trip.
Chase: Yeah. Like the family trip to your family, summer trip to Europe.
Courn: Yeah. Full disclosure, we were rich, but my dad didn't like us and didn't spend money on us. So it's different when you're Asian rich because you look rich, but don't actually live richly. And I think people don't understand that. You have nice cars, your house looks nice. The inside has some TVs, no decor.
Chase: That's a hot take, honestly. Yeah, for sure. It's the appearance of a lot of money. But like not actually kind of enjoying those spoils.
Courn: Yeah. So now let's turn me into a toxic adult where I just feel like a lot of my measures of success are rooted in having things, having money. And I know that's not success because I feel like I've done pretty well and I'm still just like, man, I freaking hate working. There's always another like totem to climb. There's always somewhere to go and I just don't want to. I just want to stay where I'm at.
Chase: Yeah. When you really break down the math, I think about that a lot in like a 24 hour day. Like when I'm working, let's just say a 10-hour day. I'm not, that's not like exact, right? Like working 10 hours means you're still gone from the house maybe 11, 10 and a half commuting time, whatever. So like, you know, of those, we're talking almost half the day is just spent working. Come home, you're trying to eat, shower, recharge for the next, you're supposed to get 8 hours of sleep. That's like 3 or 4 hours of just enjoyment per day. Yep, that's, come on.
Courn: And then you're like, oh you need to take care of yourself, you need to work out, there's stuff you need to organize at home, oh you need to take care of this and do that!
Chase: Take the dog for a walk, you gotta do laundry, you gotta keep the house operational like-
Courn: Yeah, something has to give and I just I don't know how to keep making that balance because I feel like largely that's come at the expense of like not being able to hang out with friends not being able to do things for myself and just like working.
Chase: That's the millennial way to be honest.
Courn: It's really toxic.
Chase: It's messed up. It's really messed up.
Courn: It's really toxic. I think it's why, I don't know, I think a lot of millennials like I feel like it's a common trope they're just like oh, I hate hanging out and I they hate hanging out with friends but they just don't have time to hang out with friends like once you have a baby, it's like oh you don't have time you don't have money so they just don't hang out with anyone anymore.
Chase: Or you're hanging out with friends and like people are on their phones because it's kind of exhausting to be social sometimes, especially depending on how tired you are from work or like social batteries and things like. Sometimes the best you can do is just get together, sit on the couch, put Netflix on in the background and be on your phones together.
Courn: Correct.
Chase: Just a little, what do they call that in the same space?
Courn: Like parallel play.
Chase: There you go.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: Yeah. That's the best you can do sometimes.
Courn: I'm down with that. That's all I ask for. You know, I ain't got time to stay out and go to the club. I never did that, my autistic ass would never stay late at the club but I'ma act like yeah that's something I could have done in my 20s, you know, it was not!
Chase: Dang. You brought up a good point of like, there's just always one more thing to climb. That's capitalism, right? There's always always more to do always more work to give always more money to make and like I had that realization where I was like, I thought I wanted to be making like bank and financial security was the like pinnacle of success and I quickly realized I did not want to work the amount required to make that amount of money and I quickly readjusted my expectations and like what I wanted I was like, oh yeah, no I'm very okay to not work that much and is it really even worth it taxes-
Courn: And I feel like it's for the average person too. It's just like what it means, I feel like, for someone lower middle-class, like up your hours. Like you don't make that much more. But like you're forced to do it. I think that's the thing. Like you have to work all the time, literally just to get by. Like it's not really like a choice. It's not like I can just be like, oh, let me dive into my $100,000 savings and put some investment funds and buy another house. Like-
Chase: Because the house I bought was $25,000.
Courn: Yeah, I don't know. Just like rich people are just in a whole other bracket it just drives me insane.
Chase: Yeah, I mean a lot of these problems just come rooted in capitalism. That's the reality of it.
Courn: Well they'd be like money don't solve your problems but I'm like it would solve a lot of them.
Chase: Correct. It would reduce a lot.
Courn: Yeah if I didn't have to work maybe I would actually enjoy living and doing things, you know?
Chase: Yeah, I was talking with one of our chiropractors at work, because we've got some in-house providers, and we'd had this discussion about health insurance. When you ask yourself, what am I really paying for? Like really look at it, kind of like look at it with like a critical eye like, you might be spending hundreds of dollars a month for what, the potential of needing care? If you don't use it that month, like it's gone, but then also if you do use it, are you really saving that much money because you still gotta co-pay, you still gotta like pay for some stuff and then like that just prevents your ability to actually get care and you continuously need care because you're working so much to pay for the insurance to then like, you know, it's like, it's just a cycle, it's a vicious cycle.
Courn: Insurance is like the literal worst.
Chase: A scam!
Courn: The only way to get good insurance is to not make money or be on disability, which then means you can't make money, can't get married, can't have more than $2,000 in assets or else you lose your benefits. So I know especially just like as a disabled person and I need more medical care than the average non-disabled person, it's hard because like I can't not have medical insurance. Stuff fucking comes up all the time with me and I still literally, like we have an HSA that has a good amount of money in it, and like we still are struggling to pay some of these medical bills ,and have to decide that I cannot go to a specialist because guess what it's out of pocket, like it's not covered like-
Chase: Yeah like why do we have insurance that then specialists are not covered. You pay for coverage and it doesn't actually cover it.
Courn: Especially when like it's recommended by your doctor.
Chase: Scam. Scam.
Courn: Like for example, my doctor like does not really do any like gynecologist exams and stuff and do pap smears. They're like, oh you're due for one? I've never had one and I refused to get one because I have a lot of sensory issues and I was like, oh I'm gonna need to be knocked out if I need to get one. So they're like, okay I'm gonna refer you. They should give you a call. Tell me why I went in there. It was a 10-second appointment for them just to say we don't offer knocking people out. Something they could have told me over the phone, then went and charged me $500 for that appointment.
Chase: Yep! Give us your money for that.
Courn: And I didn't even know it was like an appointment to do that. I literally thought they were just going to call me over the phone, but they were like, oh no, you have to come in. And I was like, okay, how much is it going to cost? They're like, oh, it should be covered. Was not.
Chase: Your story is not the first and not the last. That's horrible. I'm sorry.
Courn: No, I just feel like also I just feel naive. Like I think I was just like not and it's not a naivety. It's just like no one really tells you how expensive-
Chase: No one taught you how to. No. And no one. My parents didn't teach me how to navigate the insurance system because they don't even know.
Courn: I wasted so much money like setting up appointments and stuff because I didn't realize you like like, for example I've had to switch doctors a lot because I could only get in at like a small place that like has doctors that are like only doing like their introductory years and they leave.
Chase: Because they got experience after that point.
Courn: Yes, so every time you get a new doctor, apparently then it's a new client exam, not a physical exam, so that's not covered by your insurance. So you have to hound the office till they code it as a normal exam instead of a new patient exam. Sometimes they don't want to do that, so guess what? Even though I have a physical exam covered I got a new doctor last year, I had to pay $400 out of pocket for a new patient exam.
Chase: Because thatdoctor moved on not even something your fault.
Courn: Yeah, and just because they refused to adjust the coding like just so much.
Chase: The coding is insane Like, yeah I think I needed some special procedure and of course my doctor thankfully was really helpful like to be like, like we can do this but like out-of-pocket, it's gonna be this much so like that's a lot more than expected like sometimes insurance covers this like call your insurance ask them if they do this like we'll give you the codes ask them if they do that because otherwise you're gonna pay a lot of pocket. I almost was crying I was like, oh my god you've taught me more in 10 seconds than my parents have taught me my whole life so like-
Courn: It's so overwhelming!
Chase: It's terrible, that's really is this like a like an America problem, US?
Courn: It is, I don't think America is exclusive in that, but I think the fact in that we pay so much and it's still bad is an American problem. Because I hear it's pretty hard to get care in other countries just because there's long wait times because everything's free.
Chase: I was gonna say I've heard that too. Yeah.
Courn: So they're like, oh yeah, it's like top surgery is free, but you know, you have to be on a wait list for-
Chase: A year. Oh yeah.
Courn: Years. Yeah. We're still on a wait list here for a year, but it's not free.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: But it's legal. So I guess we have something, to say good job.
Chase: Yeah. Let's like, I mean, all the gender affirming care on piece on top of that, goodness.
Courn: Yeah, I'm like I mean I think we're very fortunate to live in a state where a lot of it is, it's actually illegal in Oregon to not cover gender affirming care, but that doesn't mean they're not going to pay it, just goes to your deductible so you're unless you have good insurance like I don't have insurance.
Chase: Which again it like the whole learning how like the deductible works and everything-
Courn: I still don’t get it!
Chase: I had to teach myself and like I had to like review and I was asking so many people like is this how this works like this and that and like yeah it was a nightmare. Like you pay more per month to have better coverage, but then you basically get better coverage sooner, the more you pay, the sooner you pay. But like if you don't wanna pay too much per month, then you're still gonna have to pay out of pocket later. It's like, what, who devised this system?
Courn: Yeah, rich people. Big pharma.
Chase: Yes. Thank you.
Courn: Unfortunately, they take all of our money. I still don't get good care. I don't know how I'm still paying for the bulk of my medical care, even though we pay a good portion for it every month in my spouse's paycheck, it sucks. And it would be even more if I tried to get out of pocket. I didn't have health insurance.
Chase: Yeah, the scramble from when I like turned of age to like have to get my own was a nightmare.
Courn: Yeah. Well, parents just kind of drop you off. And I mean, I think my parents were like still pretty nice. Like my mom gave me a heads up, you're going off our medical insurance plan and then I just didn't have insurance. I was like, I can't afford this. So I just didn't get it. I was like, I guess if I get in a bad accident, that's it. That's the end of me. Yeah. I'll just drown in debt.
Chase: Tell me then how you were then penalized though to not have insurance. Are you kidding me?
Courn: Yeah, they did get rid of that I think after the year but yeah that's what made me sign up.
Chase: That is insane. You have to have this or you're gonna get penalized, but if you can't afford it, we'll give you some but you can't make too much money to then get the like what? What?
Courn: That's the thing, there's such weird like contingencies and that's like all disability stuff too. That's all medical stuff too where it's like you can't make a lot of money if you want these programs to be free to you so then it just traps you in a cycle of poverty to get benefits but like literally. I mean especially like SSI limits, like you literally cannot have more than $2,000 in assets. Like just think about that in your house, like $2,000 in your bank account. Most people, I don't know, a lot of people would have that at some point if you're saving up for something.
Chase: Well $2,000, I mean does that count for like shoes, like clothing?
Courn: I'm not even sure what the asset counts for. I don't know what it would count as. I don't know if it counts towards your belongings but I know it counts towards like active money in your account.
Chase: Yeah, so like if you got bills like most people are gonna have more than $2, 000 of bills even if you're living a pretty stingy life. Like you got to have a lot of cash on hand
Courn: It's pretty much just like you can't make more than a couple thousand dollars a month and I think the limits $3,000 if you get married, which is even more atrocious per person. So I'm like, I don't know, the free health care and organs really good if you qualify for it and I'm really thankful that it's there for people who need it but I know, I think there's a lot of people just in that in-between that are still like right on the poverty line. Don't get, don't get any health care and it just sucks like you can't afford to get it.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: And then I mean that literally can be like life or death for some people. I mean you don't have steady access to health care like people just don't go the doctor when they're not feeling good so-
Chase: Oh, I mean I avoided going to the dentist for a hot minute cuz Ididn't have dental coverage but then like I knew I was gonna pay out of pocket and then I get dental insurance and then I still gotta pay a bunch out of pocket. I was like, are you kidding me? Like I still gotta pay for the x-rays that you made me get?
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: I was like, what? What the hell?
Courn: The only plan we have that I actually am like, wow that's a good deal is vision because for some reason it's like 10 bucks a month or something and it covers everything.
Chase: That's nice.
Courn: Besides like, I think some of the more expensive prescriptions, but like it covers the bulk of it. I think it's like $300. Of like Raymond's prescription. So-
Chase: Yeah. And I, for us, like I don't get vision insurance cuz I'm like it's not worth it at all.
Courn: Yeah, you should get your eyes checked though if you haven't done it.
Chase: I should, it's been a couple years so it's not like super-
Courn: Cause I thought I had good eyes and they gave me a prescription.
Chase: Oh I already know I have bad eyes I'm like squinting at stuff at work sometimes I'm just, I was squinting at something on the tv and Jess was like, can you literally not see that? I was like, I mean yeah I can make out what it is. Is it crystal clear? No.
Courn: You should because fun fact, Raymond did not have glasses. He was my partner.
Chase: It makes your eyes worse.
Courn: His whole entire life.
Chase: Oh.
Courn: He did not have glasses or anything. He didn't know, but he always had a problem reading stuff in a distance, but we just thought it was like him being dramatic. No, he went to the doctor and they were like, you've always had bad eyes. Like, I don't know what you were doing. Someone should have gave you an eye exam earlier in life. It's always been like this.
Chase: Oh, you really shouldn't have been driving, homie.
Courn: No, like it's not degenerative. Like he would have had it when he was a child.
Chase: Oh yeah yeah yeah.
Courn: So yeah and now he wears his glasses full-time.
Chase: Nice.
Courn: He takes them off he's like, oh shit I don't know what I was doing, he couldn't read signs, like he literally couldn't read road signs.
Chase: Oh my!
Courn: It's just so funny
Chase: Gosh!
Courn: I just think like that's like a very you know like. I don't know, low risk I think activity, it could have been worse you know had he got into a car accident or something when you couldn't read a sign right but I think that's a very like small example like oh, just not having access to health care could literally just mean you don't get affirming care that you need. So, it’s scary!
Chase: Because that's like a safety thing. And a lot of it does come down to safety, like you wouldn't think initially but like that's a real thing. Holy smokes he was out here driving without seeing his street sign? Bro.
Courn: And he couldn't even read the menu at McDonald's.
Chase: Oh, bro.
Courn: Like that's how bad it was. I thought he was joking the whole time we were together because it was like a running joke that he could not read any sign.
Chase: And it was because he really couldn't.
Courn: No, and so yeah, that was a little ableist of me. We were like, man, Raymond can't see. He can't! So, you never know.
Chase: Do you feel like your work lately has been meaningful and or ethical? Go off.
Courn: I mean, I think work can only be meaningful to a certain extent.
Chase: How come?
Courn: I mean when it's categorized as work, when you have to work for a living, like if I was just, I don't know, some rich person just working for fun maybe it would be more meaningful. I like my work. I like my job. Like I work freelance as a, you know, artist, illustrator, designer. Like that's an exciting thing to me. I really can't do any other work because if I don't like my work, I won't do it. But also I'm doing it for 40 hours a week. I'm not going to like it. It's too much. Anything in that amount is in general too much. And like ethical, I don't know, there's like really no ethical way to work. I know we've talked about that in previous episodes where like there is really no ethical way to work for someone else, to hire someone, which is why I work by myself. But I mean, I'm still paying into the same systems that everyone else is. I'm not morally superior because I'm self-employed. I'm just privileged to be able to do that. But I just...
Chase: You just pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and worked hard enough and...
Courn: Yeah no. I had skills. A lot of people are skilled and worthy and I got good timing so it worked out, and I do well in my job, and I still don't like it.
Chase: Yeah, we could go in even to the history of like the 40-hour work week. We don't need to but like part-time work is not bad. I mean that would probably be cool. I feel like that would be a little more ethical and like meaningful in life if you weren't spending 8 hours a day. 8 is like the standard, right?
Courn: That's a lot.
Chase: That's a lot of hours, friends.
Courn: I'm like 4 is like perfect for me and I keep a pretty flexible schedule so I feel like I'm only ever doing like 4 back-to-back like work-work hours. But then you have all the stupid admin tasks like answering emails, like organizing stuff for taxes, that ends up taking the rest of the day. Don't even get me started on like content creation and social media being an active part of your business because it is and it's also annoying. It's a lot of labor.
Chase: Yeah, but it's not like, it's a much easier way into like entrepreneurship. Cause like, I feel like that's why it's a lot, it's very popular now, right? Where it's kind of like it's not really working for someone, you're kind of working for yourself, but like it's on your own terms, you're kind of on your own hustle, it's just filming your life, whatever, but it's ultimately still going to work for someone else because ads, like ads are where you make the money eventually. So yeah, there's that. You also mentioned like ethical work of working for someone. It's a pyramid scheme. Always. It's always in a way when you think about it it's trickle down economics to a degree.
Courn: You can give someone a livable wage but the end of the day when you are profiting off of someone else's work and not doing anything. It's unethical. And I'm like, I don't, I don't, people think that is such a hot take because I say that all the time.
Chase: Why?
Courn: And they're like, oh, okay, well, you just don't want to make money. And I'm like-
Chase: I mean, I don't, not, not that much money.
Courn: But I'm like, I've thought about it. Cause I'm like, oh, I hire a junior designer. What? I pay them $50 an hour, which would be a very ethical wage for a designer. And then I'm like, oh, but then what my studio rates like $200 and like, that's how a studio usually is. So it's like, what? You're making $150 an hour, like off of each person. And that's how it was when I worked at a studio. Like I thought I was making a good wage. I was, I was making like 50k a year, but guess what? Turns out they're billing me for like $400 an hour. That's insane. Like, that's not ethical.
Chase: But you were only getting $50 of that, let's say, per hour or something.
Courn: Yeah. Which I mean, $50,000 was less than that, But it felt like a lot.
Chase: Right, that’s what I’m saying.
Courn: It was good market value. But I know, particularly in the design industry, it's every industry as well, but people just upsell you. And that's literally the process of how you have employees. You have to make money off of them. And I just don't like making money off of other people in that way.
Chase: I agree.
Courn: It's one thing when they're buying into your service and like you can argue all you want, you're giving them a space, you're giving them the work, at the end of the day, they are doing the labor.
Chase: What's the argument then for the responsibility of if something goes wrong? Like, genuinely question because that's kind of the argument it's like owners are then responsible for like major disaster but like they are profiting off the people in the meantime, hope taking the gamble on the risk that they would never have a disaster but if there was, I don't know what do you say to that, for real?
Courn: I think that's fair but I don't think it negoti,- I don't think it constitutes how much money you make off of someone. Because let's be real, I don't know, you taking a risk with a business, half of that is just hiring a lawyer to have a good contract. Like, I don't know, the average business is not just getting horribly sued by stuff. Like, you are not doing your due diligence. I get the argument, I think, with a lot of people, and like this is myself included, I don't like having that responsibility, so I like to work for someone else because I don't want to have to deal with that. And I'm like, totally valid. But I'm like, that boss is taking advantage of you, whether you want to or not, they are.
Chase: That's the situation. Point blank.
Courn: Yeah. That's how it has to work to make money. I'm just like every business is like that and I just, I don't know, maybe that's just autistic in me but ever since I feel like I realized that as an adult, I'm just like I don't want to work for someone else. I don't want to hire other people because I can't pay them what they deserve. I'd be making money off of them. The idea of making idle money off of other people actually makes me like feel sick.
Chase: Really? Wow.
Courn: I like the idea of passive income, but if it has to come at someone else's labor, to me that is just like so disgusting. You want to sell t-shirts, whatever, fine, and make passive income and have, you know, a print fulfillment center, great. But if like-
Chase: But you still kind of put the work in to set that up, I'd imagine.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: So there's not like, it's not just like effortless.
Courn: Yeah. I just know a lot of people's like passive income schemes is like literally just like pyramid schemes.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: Where it's like, oh, coaching and then you recruit another coach, you teach them how to coach so they can coach other people how to coach.
Chase: And you always take percentages off the top.
Courn: No one's even coaching each other, actual coaching, they're coaching coaches. And it is literally a pyramid scheme. And there's so much of that in the autism and like larger disabled and neurodivergent community-
Chase: What? Go off!
Courn: With all these like autistic and ADHD coaches, which is people don't have certifications they're not doctors.
Chase: Eww. I don't like that.
Courn: Which I'm not like gonna be like oh a stickler, you to have this type of education but like I don't know, you're working with vulnerable populations and yeah also just some of this advice doesn't stick with everyone and I think that's like my big qualm is that like a lot of people are just like, oh yeah any autistic person, any disabled person can like you know be a great entrepreneur have success and I'm like yes, with the right supports. And some of those supports are going to be completely unfeasible. Like maybe need a full-time care staff. You need a million dollars to get a startup. Like, that's not the same as like, I don't know what I would need as like, I don't know, a low support need autistic person, Like my supports, I have a partner who supports me and I was able to do it, that doesn't mean another person can. So it feels like these coachings set unrealistic expectations that are like, oh, you can do anything and you can, but like, I don't know, you give a false promise. And like, there's a lot of autistic and ADHD creators that are very much just like, you just need to monetize your thing. And a lot of it's just really toxic advice. It's just genuinely, I don't know, taking advantage of other marginalized people. That is the basis of what you should do. And I'm like, that's not great. That's not great.
Chase: I've been thinking about that a lot more as I've taken on more manager roles and like being the middle person. Of just like, there’s really is no way to make more money without doing like climbing on the backs of other people because that is the reality of like a manager position especially in the fitness space is like you're profiting off of the trainers efforts. Granted, like I am managing them but like at the end of the day, they're doing the work. They choose to do the work, like they could they could technically choose not to do the work, and like that would affect my pay. So the ethics of it is, it's a dilemma because like you said like trying to make enough money to have a comfortable life and then do these things that you enjoy, go on a vacation, go see the world, you know, eat good foods, I don't know have fun activities but it's still off the backs of other people's work taking advantage especially I think bothers me about the coaches.
Courn: Yeah, I hate the coaching industry in general, and yeah like for anything-
Chase: That’s such a scam!
Courn: It's actually just such a ripoff and it preys on people who are looking for that advice.
Chase: Prey. I like, that's a good word for it.
Courn: Yeah, I mean it really does I mean, it's vulnerable people that are like, oh, I just I want to make my own money, and I just I want to quit my job, which is the same exact thing with all these things. It's just, it's literally like just an MLM in a different form.
Chase: It's true!
Courn: It’s the same thing like okay, maybe you're not selling supplements, you're selling advice that apparently is gonna change people's life. There's no information that you can read that is suddenly going to make you successful. That is not how it works. You need resources, you need support systems, and you're not gonna get that from an individual coach. I know they can help people, like get you on track, but like-
Chase: You have to do the work at the end of the day. You have to follow that structure or whatever system and outline they give you. You still got to do that. Every day, set that stuff up, plan and execute. We talked about one time the only ethical way we could think of it was doing those...uh, there's probably a term for it, but it's when the owner or the highest paid person in the company never makes x percentage more than like the lowest paid or x amount more than the lowest paid. that's like the closest they get I've actually seen a couple businesses do that so it is possible.
Courn: And I don't know if that's ethical, I think that's just leveling out the playing field more. Like you're still probably what? Making like 10, 20 times more.
Chase: Yeah, sometimes.
Courn: It's like the limit are still pretty high.
Chase: But like I think about that 5 times the lowest paid. So let's say the lowest paid is what 50 grand or 50k a year right it's like 5 times 50 what is that like 250,000 dollars, that's a lot of money in America in the United States-
Courn: Yeah that’d be pretty good!
Chase: So you’d be pretty good. But like compared to the 50k that that lifestyle you're living completely different, completely different so even then that's like you said it's leveling the playing field, but it still ain't level. There's still a big curve to that.
Courn: No.
Chase: God. There's just no ethical consumption.
Courn: No. And I feel like too, it's just you have to work to live and you just get in these cycles of burnout that I feel like are literally required. At least I felt this way. I feel a little bit less now working on my own, but I was working for other people. To be to their standards, I had to be working 200% all the time, which turns out, you know, that is just a euphemism.
Courn: I don't even know, if euphemism is the right word, but it's not something that people mean literally. You should not be giving 200% all the time. You will burn out and keel over but that's what it felt like as a disabled person giving 200% to keep up with other people's you know.
Chase: 50%?
Courn: Yeah, and a lot of it's like perceived too, like I think I come off as a very hard worker and people are like, oh you always get stuff done and I'm like it's because I'm trying all the time and I'm exhausted and I thought everyone else was trying this hard and some of them are but a lot of them aren't. But I'm doing all this and barely making a paycheck to pay off my student loans, to pay my rent, like what the heck? Like I think it's just easier, it's easy to say, oh you know, just slow down, you know, stop working so hard. But it's like people have to work hard, they have to work these shitty jobs to make a living and live. Like there's no, there's no way to like get out of that system. When it is the prominent system. Like you can't opt out. You opt out, you die.
Chase: Yeah. I think about that with a lot of ADHD folks. Like it's hard to stay in the same job for years to build up the experience and time at a job to earn higher wages. For me, I won't speak for all people, but for me it's hard. I've bounced around between a lot of jobs. I have a family member who, same thing, holding the same job for over a year was like really hard. And like, he bounced around to like job after job after job, in which case you're always starting at the base pay at that, you know, it's just like, so you're never really building up that experience to make more. So then you end up staying in a job that you hate because you're trying to like just make that money and then like you said the burnout rate is just so much higher and you're working so much harder to make even remotely the amount other people are.
Courn: Yeah, it feels like a vicious cycle. I don't know. people are just tired all the time, they're still not making enough to enjoy their life and there's not really a way to break that without, I don't know, having suddenly access to resources, which how does that happen?
Chase: I feel like once I pieced together the fact that all the systems we live in are actively working against us and that there is literally like almost no way to kind of hack the system and like beat the system. Once I kind of realized, I was like, oh, it kind of just puts into context that for me, that I was like, I don't need to kill myself and work myself to death and do this. And granted, that's a privilege to be able to say, I don't have to work myself to death to make a livable wage. Like it's absolutely a privilege, but like-
Courn: Oh for sure!
Chase: Just that realization that like it's just never going to be enough. I'm like, okay, I remind myself that a lot. Like there's just, there's never enough. The system is always going, the goal of the system is to burn me out and literally like kill me or almost kill me to the point where like I could still profit and make the system money so-
Courn: Well it also feels like the system doesn't award you for working harder either I feel like any job where I went above and beyond what did it end with not me getting a raise with me getting more responsibilities expected to do more work at the same rate.
Chase: Because it proves you could do it.
Courn: Yes. And like that's how it is. You give too much, then that's just become the new baseline.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: Like it's not like you get compensated for that extra expertise, for that extra work you got done. Unfortunately, it does not work like that when you work for someone else. So I'm like, if I'm working for someone else, I'm doing the bare minimum. I feel like I have to tell my partner that all the time. Cause I'm just like, why are you working after hours? Why are you like, who'd be like all frenzied in their breath. And I remember being like that when I was being like, oh, I just got an email. I gotta respond to it right now. Oh, I gotta get this sent over. And I'm like, slow down. They do not pay you enough to be this panicked about the work. Like-
Chase: They do not.
Courn: Take it in your time. That is what most people are doing too. Like most people, like that's the thing I've learned just like as a like, I don't know, a chronic perfectionist and people pleaser at work. Like most people they like get an email, they're like, okay I'll reply to that, let me think on that. And then I'm just like typing as fast as I can trying to get over that file that they needed. And there's a sense of urgency, this fake sense of urgency that comes with capitalism all the time that you have to be going, go go go, all the time that's not only just work it's everything, but slow down.
Chase: Yeah, no that's a great point I find myself doing the same thing of just like panicking like it has to be taken care of there's an immediacy and lately I've just been like pausing and telling myself what would a middle-aged white man do? How would a middle-aged white man handle the situation? And it honestly makes me, it makes me a little stressed still. It makes me stress a little bit because I'm just like, this is terrible. But at the same time I'm like, if a middle-aged white man was in my role doing this exact thing, how would they handle this? They would just be chill and they'd just be like, oh that's kind of sucks or that's a little stressful, but just be like, okay I'll handle it tomorrow or whatever.
Courn: Literally!
Chase: They're just like, send me file, send from my phone. Right? They're just like, how do we like just try not to panic as much about it because-
Courn: Not care as much.
Chase: Yeah, that's been like a really helpful thing for me.
Courn: I agree. I feel like I have to tell Raymond that a lot too because I think it's also hard with the adhd, he has that as well, and I feel like he more than me has a lot of hyper fixations or once he gets a thought in his head, it's very much like kind of just like he cannot get rid of it. Like, so if he's like, oh, you know, the bamboo in our yard, it's overgrowing. It’s going to get to the neighbor's yard, he's reminded of, he's like, I have to go out there right now and do it. And I'm like, this is our only day off. You can do it another day. He's like, no, it's getting so bad.
Chase: No impulse control, too.
Courn: We have to do it right now and then he'll go out and do it and he's not calm until he gets it done. And that's also just how his brain works sometimes. But sometimes he’ll just be like, I got a new order. I have to go ship it out right now. I'm like, it's like 10 o'clock at night. Wait till tomorrow.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: And I have to remind him and like I think it's help for myself too because I'm the same exact way. It's there's always a sense of urgency like I have to do this right now and also it's because I think if I don't do it right then I'm never gonna do it.
Chase: You're gonna forget it. Yeah. No for real. I it's but like the way you just mentioned that like you got it like you think of it so crap I need to do it right now, but when you don't do it, it's a very unsettling feeling. It's almost indescribable and to those of you listening who maybe are neurotypical, you might not understand it, but it's a very anxiety-inducing kind of like, I don't know, it's almost like you just, it's like there's something that's on your mind and you can't get it off and then your, my body at least, gets like very like shaky and like you know buzzy feeling and so like until it gets sorted or till I get it to a point where I'm like okay, I can leave this here like it just makes it worse and worse. I get a little tummy ache, you know, and stuff. So it's that balance, right? Like if I don't do it right now, I'm not going to feel better. But like if I don't do it, it might not get done. So yes, that feels a little system.
Courn: I feel like I ended up doing all this stuff right in the moment because I don't know. I have a lot of problems with ruminating thoughts and when they’re ruminating in my head, I just feel so crappy. I physically feel bad. I can't relax. I just have to go and do it.
Chase: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I try to use a list to be like, okay, I'm going to put in the list. I'm going to do it tomorrow. But then the anxiety, I'm like, oh, but my list is getting so big now, I have to do all these things tomorrow, right? Like, you try to put these little solutions in place and it kind of works, it takes the edge off, but like, not really.
Courn: I feel like I have to ground myself and be like, why am I worrying over this stupid job? Like I try to like put it in a wider perspective where it's something that's actually really important.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: Like it's like, oh, it's a big deadline for like, you know, a thesis or something. You need to get that shit done. You should be worried about that. Like you need to pay your rent. You need to get that done. But when it's something like, oh, I need to answer this email. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Like, I don't know. I also catastrophize everything. So I'm always in my head being like, what's the worst possible thing that could happen if I don't get this done Which sounds like it would be a toxic thing to do, but it's actually very helpful. Because when you map out the worst scenario and then you're like, why would that happen? You're like, okay, then I just won't do it.
Chase: I would tell myself, can't wait till tomorrow. And then when tomorrow comes and I don't do it, I'm like, but can I wait till tomorrow? To a degree, right? Like you said, to a deadline. Those are some pretty good solutions and things that you have found. I know we have dogged a lot on being like an adult and all the hardships. Have you found any positives either in like supports and like getting work to be like more meaningful for you, or like ways that it hasn't been just a shit show?
Courn: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I will just say that like, as much as this whole episode is about adulting and it being really hard, I still think there's so much things to look forward to, to being an adult. Not only when it comes to work, but just like everything. I think just having an agency over your life that maybe you didn't have as a kid is really big. It also can be really scary and dangerous when you don't know what to do with that agency. But I don't know, just having the ability to even choose your work or choose your relationships, to choose to be around family, to not, like how to spend your time. Like I find it very overwhelming, but also very empowering in a lot of aspects. Like, I don't know, I don't know, my parents are very like picky about the jobs I wanted to have in high school and stuff, or what I could do, who I could hang out with, and now I'm like, I can do anything, which simultaneously means I do nothing, because there's too many choices. But I don't know, we do, I'm a firm believer. We do have some choices in life. We can, you know, make better realities for ourself to an extent. We also have to acknowledge all of the barriers and systemic ones that make it harder for so many of us. But I mean, we're adults and we have the ability to choose things sometimes, whether that's a small thing, sometimes it is big things. I think that's really exciting. And then just as a kid, if you grew up in like a very traumatic home environment, like being able to, at least for some of us to get out of that, is big. And like, I don't know, have control of your life. It can be really, really empowering. So.
Chase: I agree.
Courn: It's a cool thing to be an adult. I wish we lived in a better society, but the idea of being an adult is cool still.
Chase: I just want to be a cool adult, Courn!
Courn: Yeah, I don't want to be like the other adults. I'm down to earth.
Chase: I'm a cool adult!
Courn: I'm that Steve Buscemi meme where he's like dressed like a kid. He's like, I'm cool.
Chase: What was it from Bob's Burgers? Like for hip-hop!
Courn: Yeah, yeah.
Chase: Yeah, that's true. I mean the autonomy is nice but at the same time like, you have to put in some work to like access that, like some people who just kind of like are not in a position to like unpack some of that and just kind of blindly follow like society expectations, like being an adult who can go to therapy and work through some stuff and like now have a lot more peace and calm in my life, like you said choosing to be around people with meaningful relationships and as much as we can do things that are actually enjoyable in life, because humans don't have a long lifespan. It's longer than what it was, but at best you're gonna live to what 90 and even those last-
Courn: That’s too old for me!
Chase: Yeah like 10 years of that, you're not gonna be that popping are you? I don't know You're not trying to live to 100, Courn?
Courn: My worst take is that I'm always like, yeah, max 60 and then older people get really upset when I say that. Validly so, but I'm also just like as a disabled person already has a lot of problems with my body.
Chase: You're like, I'm good to get to 60.
Courn: Yeah, I just know my body is gonna be absolute trash and no that's not an excuse not to live but yeah let me live in my delulu.
Chase: That's fine. We can live you in that but yeah. That's true.
Courn: I think a lot of it's just like choice and I think necessarily you don't have choice in what your resources are but you do have choice on like how to use them. Like, I don't know, you may stuck working at a shitty job and you don't make that much money, but you get to choose how to spend that money in a way that you do have. And that's something like I didn't have as a kid, which I think is cool.
Chase: Yeah. It's cool as an adult to then make the choice to leave a cult. I'm happy for that. I mean shout out to that. Like getting to become my authentic self has been scary. It's been a journey. It's not always easy. It's not a straight path. It's not like all butterflies and rainbows. But like I definitely as I get older would not go back to being a kid like come on, my life now is really is nice and like I'm grateful for that.
Courn: I could not stand the thought of like living at home again definitely knowing all that I know now. But the thought of being a kid in like a nice home, I would do that. But not my own, I'm good, I did that once, I'm traumatized. We don't need to relive it. But-
Chase: Definitely not. That's another piece about being an adult-
Courn: That's what I wanted to say-
Chase: Food, goodness gracious, trying to feed yourself all the time and this might just become from obviously the ADHD piece and like eating ain't easy but like-
Courn: I don't think cooking is easy for anyone or figuring out what to eat but literally no one told me that the rest of your life is just spending every hour deciding what you're going to eat next.
Chase: Planning your next meal, like it would be great to be able to go out to eat for every single meal. I would love that. I don't make that kind of money, especially food prices now. McDonald's meals like 20-25 bucks. Are you kidding me?
Courn: It's like 20 bucks a person minimum.
Chase: Yeah.
Courn: It's horrid.
Chase: And like obviously the quality of food but, yeah that's another hard piece of being an adult, especially a ADHD adult. You said cooking isn't easy. Cooking's easy when you've got people to help you clean up and shop for you!
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: But like I don't got those kind of resources, I don't know, about you all listening but like I'm sure cooking would be easy if I just got to make a mess and walk away and the next day I come back and it's all cleaned up.
Courn: That's true.I get overwhelmed just even by the process.
Chase: I would say but some people don't enjoy that.
Courn: I like cleaning up cooking stuff because I like cleaning stuff like that but I, the process of cooking is just so upsetting to me. I hate reading recipes.
Chase: Like doing that every single day or every single night after working all day?
Courn: I don't know, what I want to eat like I'm honestly just thankful that Raymond is so patient with me.
Chase: Right.
Courn: Because I am the worst person to feed. I have ARFID, I'm disabled, I can't make my own food, and I don't know what I want to eat. He doesn't fucking know, so he's just being very patient, like well how about we try this or that and I'm like-
Chase: My partner's the same way, yeah, very grateful for it.
Courn: But I'm like yeah I didn't have that I just be eating top ramen every night which is what I did when I live by myself so, food man!
Chase: Yeah! That's another piece I wasn't prepared for as an adult.
Courn: I'm not even getting into the health like the health options-
Chase: Nutrition!
Courn: Which that also worries me I'm always like oh, am I getting enough vegetable,s am I gonna just drop dead one day, no I'm just trying to eat. I'm just I can't get-
Chase: Besides the lettuce that I get in like a burger, I'm not gonna lie I don't remember the last time I ate a vegetable.
Courn: I would have thought you would have ate vegetables.
Chase: As a trainer?! Vegetables are the hardest thing to cook are you kidding me? Gotta clean them you gotta prep them, you gotta cook them, you gotta coat them in flavoring, and then you gotta clean them.
Courn: And then they're only mid.
Chase: And they don't reheat well all the time!
Courn: No.
Chase: Like, uhh.
Courn: I eat vegetables like every other day.
Chase: That's good.
Courn: Mainly because I just really like squash and I put squash in everything. I like squash in my pasta. I like roasted squash. I eat a lot of green beans too.
Chase: That's so wild, because I feel like squash texture is not good.
Courn: It's good if you cook it, so it's like completely mushy and put it in something else.
Chase: Oh, Courn.
Courn: So if you put it in my pasta sauce, like we have pasta sauce where we grind the squash into like the cheese.
Chase: Okay that's different, if it's blended that's different.
Courn: I like squash in soup too because it's like it's soggy and it all like it all just tastes like noodles and soup and I can eat that but like.
Chase: Yeah, see I can't do the mushy texture that's a terrible thing in my brain personally.
Courn: That's fair, I know a lot of people don't like squash I like mushrooms too so I eat a lot of mushrooms. It's always the leafy greens are really hard for me. They taste like ass. They don't heat well and I know those are the healthiest ones and that's why they taste the worst.
Chase: Oh you know what, I had a Caesar salad like 2 weeks ago. That's-
Courn: There you go.
Chase: Lettuce is a vegetable. It's all water. That's all. But it's coated in a vegan Caesar-
Courn: Atleast it’s vegan? That doesn’t mean it’s healthier-
Chase: That's all right, I mean my, my body is my choice, but-
Courn: Well we say, fed is best!
Chase: Truly!
Courn: You just gotta eat.
Chase: Can we just invent like an IV where it just gives me the nutrients to live? I'm not gonna lie.
Courn: I say this all the time, like if I could just like take like a pill.
Chase: Yeah, just has like the calories, like that would be great.
Courn: Like I get, I don't even enjoy eating food that much.
Chase: Soylent's close to that.
Courn: That's literally what I do.
Chase: But even then I get palate fatigue from those. It's so sweet.
Courn: It also doesn't fill you up. Like I don't know, as someone who did trying to do soylent for like multiple meals a day, my whatever, stomach is still actively growling. So it's not filling you up.
Chase: Or then it gets my tummy upset and then I got to go to the bathroom and don't retain any of that nutrition.
Courn: Correct, correct. It's rough out here!
Chase: Yeah, how do you feel like your friendships are as an adult? I know the phrase of like making friends as an adult is pretty hard. I found that to be true. I was kind of shocked about that. I didn't believe it at first, but now that I'm trying to make friends as an adult, it's actually way more challenging than I thought.
Courn: Yeah, I think it's really hard. I mean, just adding on the layer of first just being autistic, because I'm just not great at reading social cues. People always think I'm not interested in being friends with them. That's just my face. That's just my tone. But even aside from all of that, it's also just hard, I think, to find friends that are a good match at this point in my life. Because I think, I don't know, I was more lenient. Or maybe I had more friends in a similar position, I think you're all kind of on a level playing field when you meet at school or you meet even at work sometimes, in a university, like you see them each other every day, it doesn't feel like you know you have to always learn all these other aspects of their life. But I feel like now sussing out friends as an adult, there's a lot of like, I don't know if ethics is the right thing, but like moral qualms I have, where I'm like, oh this person's really cool and then they do something that is just so fucking unhinged, like they just have such a rancid belief or like your lifestyle is just so different that you can't get along at all, like they just want to go out all the time. And I'm like, I'm not that type of 20s anymore. Like it just feels like there's a lot of like lifestyle and personality differences that become more apparent when you get older, maybe just have less patience for it. But it's like, I don't want to be around people who like, I don't know, aren't educated on topics that affect me. And that's a big thing. Like, I don't have patience for that anymore. Like, y'all are almost in your thirties. Like, you need to know what it means to live as a marginalized person in this country. You need to understand our experiences to some extent, like have some awareness, but like, I’ll just meet, I don't know, so many like adults in Portland, just white adults. And I'm like, y'all are just so clueless. Like I cannot have a friendship with you past acquaintances, because it's like, it's just not a good match.
Chase: It's not meaningful. That's what I'm finding.
Courn: I think that's what I want to have meaningful friendships. And as a result, I don't have a lot.
Chase: I think that's key to a meaningful friendship though, right? Like I don't know for me, I can't have meaningful relationships with a hundred different people. That's exhausting.
Courn: How do you do that?
Chase: I couldn't have that with 50 people.
Courn: I don't even know how you're a good friend is like, I don't know, past like 2 people because I've, I don't know.
Chase: Plus a partner.
Courn: Yeah. I have all these notions in my head likem oh you at least need to contact them like once a weekm like you need to see each other once a month and you start doing the math. I don't have enough free time to have more than 3 friends so I got 1 vacancy guys, taking applicants!
Chase: Well careful with that one, you're gonna get some stuff!
Courn: I literally just set up a datem a friendship date, to do something next week with someone I was very excited about-
Chase: It wasn't me!
Courn: Because we're already friendsm we already see each other, we're gonna paint pottery!
Chase: That's some aries energy right there.
Courn: It is and this is my gemini energy!
Chase: We love it, we love it. Yeah, meaningful relationship. That was really my theme going into this year. I was like, I can't be having these, like, friendships that just cause more stress.
Courn: So that’s why I have to drop you, Courn. That's why I can't be your friend anymore, Courn. I hate to break it to you.
Chase: It's not you. It's me. Actually, it is you. It's not me at all. I'm perfect.
Courn: That's what I get told. Apparently.
Chase: I mean, those sort of like ADHD layer for me, like the new friends, it's so exciting meeting new people. And you're like, oh yeah, we get along. We're like perfect match. And then a couple of weeks go by and I'm just kind of like, oh wait you might actually kind of be annoying.
Courn: This person actually is the worst. I think they're the antichrist.
Chase: Or like you get along with one thing and then like you see them in different contexts and you're like, oh no, oh that's not uh-oh. So I agree. I'm learning to kind of have like the layers of friends like levels, almost in a way where you get like your close crew, and you got some like acquaintances and maybe people who are like you're friendly with and like whatever else but like I'm also not trying to keep a lot of levels and layers and multiple people in those like I'm just I'm keeping my crew small.
Courn: Yeah, I don't really just I just don't know how to balance the levels and stuff like I don't really understand how you get to a certain point with a friend it's very hard for me to like grasp like it was very clear with me with older friends because we've been friends for so long and it was verbally expressed like, you're my best friend-
Chase: Oh, I hate that term!
Courn: And now as an adult I'm like what does that mean and I'm like I can't tell-
Chase: That's a hot take!
Courn: I think we're close friends, I think we're close friends, but I'm like I don't know what it means to be someone's best friend. I think that's technically my partner and that will always, be because they are your best friend. You want to live with them and share the bed with them. So that seems like a pretty good friendship to me.
Chase: And it stops at the bed for you. *laughs*
Courn: You know what? Done with the ace jokes here.
Chase: No, I mean, it's true. Like that term best friend, hot take, I don't like it at all, it feels like it's creating like some classes and divisions but like I usually will use the term like oh, this is like a really long time friend or something just to show that like we have a lot of time being friends, but even then like who cares like I don't need to know who your best friend is, just tell me this is your homie this is your friend is a really good friend of mine or something like-
Courn: I've only ever been hurt by that label because I was in so many like 3 person friend groups and -
Chase: again that just why-
Courn: Why were they always the best friends and I was the optional friend and that's our own people like ohm this is my best friend it also just makes me feel so bad because I'm like oh I thought we were like, I didn't know your best friend but I thought it's fine-
Chase: I just have an issue with like perfection and best and like top of everything because again like that's gonna change like who you are as people are growing all the time. You mentioned like people going to the club, same thing I have a hard time dealing with people or like interacting and creating relationship with people who have different coping strategies for stress and anxiety and maybe who like to express all of that in different ways like you're right I can't party like that, like it's fun every now and then for me to do that and it's cool but like the recovery time-
Courn: There's still friends that are doing that like 3 days a week still and I'm like-
Chase: Dude. And see like I've done the work to not need to do that. Like I find way other ways to stress or relief like relieve my stress and I find other ways to like deal with that and so like if you if that's where you're at, no shame but like, no thank you.
Courn: No, I think on opposite side too I feel like I have friends that are now like in a really exciting stage of life, like they're having kids, like they're buying their house, and they're becoming very isolated and when they do a free time it's like I don't want to babysit and like that's no disrespect to you or your child but I don't like children in that way. I don't want to come over and hang out with your baby. I want to hang out with you. And I understand it's a package deal now. And like, that's-
Chase: yeah, no shade on that. We understand it's together, but like, ugh.
Courn: Like I like your kid, but respectfully kids are such a sensory nightmare for me and they overwhelm me. And I, I like, I want to like your kid, but it's like, they need to get a little older, respectfully. And maybe that makes me a bad friend, but I don't, I don't really have any close friends that have kids yet. I think it's more just like acquaintances and stuff. And I've just noticed like how much of a difference it makes in lifestyle. And I'm just like, oh man, I'm not there yet. I'm not like, I don't know, revolving my whole life around children. I'm still about me, myself and I, proudly. Like, I don't know. I got a lot of stuff I want to do. I'm not ready to like, I don't know, 100% care for another being and put them before me in every single way. Like that's such a intense thing and not everyone feels that way about parenthood. But I do, and when I want to have a kid I want them to be the number one priority. I ain't there.
Chase: One, I cannot wait for you to have a kid. This is gonna be a wild time because my wife and I have no desire nor planning to have kids at any point, so this is gonna be a really fun interaction. This is gonna be wild, but two weird, like you brought up the point like you're not ready to be selfish about that like to another person. I feel like we and like where we're at you and I in life like we're just now getting to the point where we actually get to prioritize ourselves and like enjoy what we've built up and worked hard to separate and like become. Like I'm not trying to blindly just get into like giving to another kid, especially knowing maybe like how we each grew up and like well you know had a gentle parent, like that’s a lot of work to commit to. I'm not I'm trying to be I'm just trying to enjoy my life, man.
Courn: Yeah, and I don't know, I hear myself, I see myself, and I'm like, that's not parent material yet.
Chase: Yet?
Courn: No, I'm just like, man, if that was a parent, I'd be like, ooh.
Chase: Okay, but you're gonna be that cool parent with colored hair and a lot of tats.
Courn: Yeah, the parent that everyone hates, but...
Chase: The like really like liberal parent that's just like, be whatever kids! I love it. I love it.
Courn: Yeah, that's why I'm like, but then I think realistically, I'm all like, oh man, we're thinking about kids seriously and like, I don't know, when we’re 30. I'm like, that's only like a couple years away.
Chase: Yeah, so the real thing you gotta account for. Adulting. Planning for kids.
Courn: I just hate that that's like the next step. It feels like every step of adulthood is planning for the next step and because of that you never really get to enjoy where you're at. I think a lot of people lose out.
Chase: There's no presence and just like being in the moment.
Courn: Yeah, especially I don't know it's a privilege to have a great partner and I don't know, be financially stable enough to be able to be with them and do things together that I'm just like man, I just really want to hang out with them and-
Chase: literally!
Courn: It's hard traveling with kids, let's be real!
Chase: Oh my goodness, yeah!
Courn: Respectfully, I'm not bringing any kid under the age of 5 anywhere unless I have to because it's expensive, and you're tired, and you have to pack like 20 bags for them, and I get it that you just have to do that if you want to take a vacation. But-
Chase: Yeah. I just went back to Hawaii a couple weeks ago and like those little babies on the plane again. I get it, you want to bring your kids places but like the kids like doesn't understand the airplane, the pressure, is screaming, it's not in a good like that is a lot for everyone involved so yeah that's a good point about the kids traveling. It's expensive. It's a little weird.
Courn: They can't remember it either, but from what I've gathered whenever I brought this up with parents, they're like, oh, I don't care about the kid experiencing it. They're like, I just can't get a babysitter or like I can't afford to get one. It's like I have to bring them. And I'm like, okay. But you're aware that like-
Chase: That's also what happens when you like when you are in the decision and like having a kid you're like these things you gotta factor in right, do people not factor this in? They're just like blindly going into being like, oh we'll figure it out!
Courn: Kind of! I just think everyone just kind of like, I don't know, not guilted but expected to just have a kid and people do it really early it's just like I don't know, I don't think you're prepared, for like all the sacrifices you have to make.
Chase: Yeah, I like that about our generation, it's getting better about like not just like jumping into kids as much. I feel like like the younger generations are just like slowing down, it's not a value anymore.
Courn: Yeah.
Chase: This ain’t the Great Depression and we need like 12 kids to be able to pay for the roof over our heads.
Courn: Yeah, well now we can't afford to have kids so.
Chase: That's a great point.
Courn: It goes both ways but yeah that's also they're financially supporting a kid like, I don't know, I want them to have a good upbringing. I don't want them to be spoiled or nothing, which I don't even know what it means to spoil a kid. I think that's debatable, but kids are expensive.
Chase: They sure are. Okay, well, I hope you have a bad time on your friend date cause you don't need other friends other than me. I'm just kidding. I hope you have a fun time.
Courn: I'm not sensing genuineness in those eyes. It's very aries!
Chase: A little more judgmental-
Courn: It’s very aries energy.
Chase: OK, well, I guess I'm going to go make some new friends and find a friend date myself!
Chase: Okay bye!
Courn: Bye!
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