Episode 25: It’s a weird time to be a human!

Courn:     Welcome to Neurotakes. I'm Courn!

Chase:     This is Chase.

Courn:     Let's get into it.

Chase:     Has your loan forgiveness hit yet or like what's the update on that? Because we both got ours forgiven.

Courn:     It is officially hit. I logged in.

Chase:     0 balance? *gasps* Go off!

Courn:     Yeah I actually logged in and it made me make a new login because the federal government bought whatever my loan provider.

Chase:     Okay.

Courn:     So I had to remake a new login but I went in there and it said 0 dollars. And then I got a fat check for 20 grand in the mail of all the money I paid over the last 2 years. So it actually made my year!

Chase:     That's pretty sick. Now you can pay your bills for the rest of the year.

Courn:     Yeah, I literally I was just like, this is free money. And then Raymond was like, you literally paid for that.

Chase:     Yeah, it's just getting a refund.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     And you're not going to be able to cover the interest either, which also hurts. That's the money you don't get back but I didn't even know I was gonna get a refund and apparently some people aren't just depends who your loan service provider was.

Chase:     I mean yeah yeah. I gotta see if my balance hit 0 cuz I don't know that I've checked lately I was checking for a hot second but.

Courn:     Yeah I didn't check for a few months and then I heard a lot of people whatever we're getting like they were, their loan like automatically got put in forbearance without them asking it to.

Chase:     Yeah, what does that mean?

Courn:     It like puts it on pause, but like sometimes it means you can get interest, sometimes it doesn't like I don't quite understand what the term forbearance means but people were worried about that so yeah if you went to the art institutes of Portland you may be entitled to have your loans forgiven.

Chase:     Specifically the Portland one, but I’m sure all the Ai’s?

Courn:     No, all of them!

Chase:     All the AI'‘s oh all across the board, AI?

Courn:     Yeah!

Chase:     Yeah buddy!

Courn:     Some of them got their money a lot earlier because we're 1 of the accredited ones. We were 1 of the last ones to get approved.

Chase:     Yeah, checked and stuff. You want to give the audience some context? You love giving context.

Courn:     Yeah, well, our school, apparently, Ifound out the main reason for this lawsuit was because they were lying about employment rates. That is the main reason why they were able to give loan forgiveness. But they were saying something that like 60% of people, maybe even higher, it was like 68 or something, were getting employed after going to AI and then lied about having all these career resources. It turns out they were fudging that number. It was actually closer to 30 percent, which is illegal to do, even as a private institution. And then what happened was they actually ended up going out of business. It happened when I was still in school.

Chase:     Two years? A year? Oh that's right because you were there for longer than I graduated.

Courn:     Yeah if I had not gone on accelerated rate I would not have been able to graduate and would have just had to test my luck at another institution.

Chase:     Who didn't take any of our credits by the way!

Courn:     Yeah PNCA was nice and took a lot of AI Portland ones, but-

Chase:    Even then what are you gonna do with that degree?

Courn:     Yeah, it also it's slightly of a different degree, but also I don't know my school looks so bad because it closed down and has such a big stigma, I wouldn't even put on my resume anymore. Personally I would not if I applied for a job-

Chase:     I just have this degree and that's it.

Courn:    Yeah, I just say whatever, Bachelors of Arts. Wouldn't say where because it holds such a bad name, but yeah originally I think it was like back in march or something Biden declared something that all the ai schools have to, if you went from the years of like I think it's like 20.

Chase:     It's a big gap.

Courn:     It's a bit, it's like 2009 maybe to 2018.

Chase:     Yeah, big gap.

Courn:     Yeah, when they were using those false stats, you can have all your stuff forgiven, but only for federal loans of course, private loans are different, which most people had to take private loans out.

Chase:     Which is insane.

Courn:     Yeah. So I could only take whatever 6,000 out a year through my federal loans.

Chase:     Oh.

Courn:     So I have both loans, but my private loans are pretty much gone too.

Chase:     6,000, God. I don't even remember what our annual was. Cause didn't we go by a quarters, semesters? What did we do?

Courn:     Yeah, it was like semesters. So, I mean, you would do 3 typically.

Chase:     You'd pay semesters, but we'd have quarters of school.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Courn:     I do remember all the pricing because each class was essentially thousand dollars, that's how it worked.

Chase:     Okay that makes sense.

Courn:     Yeah so you know you took 5 classes, 4 classes a term for 5 grand, and tuition which yearly 15 to 20, which is pretty standard.

Chase:     Yeah it just isn't bad but considering that it didn't literally give you anything. Like it's a laughing stock to come from that school.

Courn:     Yeah, there was like 0 career resources or anything. Almost every person I know who went to school doesn't have a job in the field. I actually don't know a single person from my class that's actually-

Chase:     Now is that truly because of like our skills and like people who want it? Like do we want jobs in those fields or is it kind of that realization you're like oh screw that, I don't want a job in the field or is it a combo of both?

Courn:     I think both.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     I mean I think a lot of people didn't feel adequately prepared to then go enter, I don't know a full-time job, working 50 hours a week doing design work it fucking sucks. You also have to take really shitty jobs. I feel like people came out with really bad portfolios too and bad interview skills like I, I was told by every interviewer that I gave absolutely horrible interviews.

Chase:     Really?!

Courn:     But my portfolio was good.

Chase:     Okay so yeah I feel like my portfolio did something, but like, I don't know.

Courn:     Don't ask for feedback on interviews. I was told that was the thing you're supposed to do and then I did that and they were like, yeah, you came off so stiff. So awkward.

Chase:     Okay, but that might be the tism.

Courn:     Yeah, it was. It was a little weird. But I practiced!

Chase:     Oh, in the mirror. I just remember getting, like, I thought when I got my job because it actually took me a hot minute after graduating to like get a design job because I really wanted a design job. I was like this is I really liked it I was like was probably fine at it. I probably wasn't great but like it took.

Courn:     There's not a lot of roles around here.

Chase:     Yeah, and what you would think in Portland, I was like, oh, for sure I'm gonna get a job from this. But also like I didn't shop, or I didn't like look around for design jobs right away because I wouldn't travel the bunch, remember? So like, I mean, it still took me like almost 6 months of like hardcore applying resume.

Courn:     I believe that, it's so competitive.

Chase:     And so, I mean, I think the only reason I got in is because the place I worked was like kind of a shit show and they're desperate.

Courn:     Yeah, I mean, I literally got a job with a teacher. And then I switched jobs because they happened to go to the portfolio show and also went to AI. And we're like, man, this school really sucks. And they're like, but you seem good. You want to come work at this company I work at?

Chase:     Let's go, saved by the bell!

Courn:     Honestly, I don't think I, like, cause I interviewed at so many positions, never got a job just like, I don't know, cold interviewing, only when I knew someone there. So it's like the nepotism of working. If you know someone at a job, you probably can get it. If you don't, you won't.

Chase:     So again, it just went to show that the degree did almost nothing to actually get you the job.

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:     Like it probably taught you some skills. Like I think your skills progressed a lot throughout our time together. Like you, you were already really good when we went in compared to everyone who was there, but like you, like your craft really got honed. So.

Courn:     I don't know about all that, but I do think I came out with good. I came out with a good portfolio, maybe not a good portfolio for getting a job but like-

Chase:     Confident in your skill.

Courn:     Yeah but it's hard I mean you can be really good and if you don't interview well-

Chase:     Oh that's I'm finding now as a manager, I'm just like oh it's really about how you interview, unfortunately.

Courn:     And as we know a lot of autistic and neurodivergent people don't exactly make the best first impressions on neurotypical people. So.

Chase:     That's fair. That’s fair.

Courn:     I’m told I’m abrasive, every time.

Chase:     It's a lot of like stigma and like social behaviors. You have to learn in an interview and like how the format to interview right and how you answer questions and how you talk about things, eye contact, nerves like-

Courn:     For sure!

Chase:     Being able to make small talk is a huge thing basically it's like do they like you out of that interview? Yes or no, do you get the job.

Courn:     Which like really has nothing to do with your job performance as a position that is completely technical. Like I get if I was going into like a sales position or something that's like, I don't know, consumer facing, but like as me applying for like junior design jobs to go pretty much be someone's like, I don't know, underling and just do a bunch of shit and have an art director make all the money off me. I don't know why it mattered if I was good at communicating.

Chase:     Yeah let's talk about, I mean today we're talking about higher education and college a little bit.

Courn:     Yeah it sucks.

Chase:     College?

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Why does it suck?

Courn:     For so many multitudes of reasons. I mean it's ridiculously expensive and I know this is not a uniquely U.S. Problem but it's definitely a big 1. I mean it's so easy to take out like $200,000 in loans and not really have a lot of, I don't know, someone telling you like-

Chase:     Context!

Courn:     Yeah like how you're gonna have to pay that off, what that's gonna your life's gonna look like realistically how much you're gonna make us in that career or if you don't work out in the career that you're just stuck with it. The assumption that, I don't know, an environment like that is gonna work for everyone, because it doesn't work for a lot of people having that type of structure. Sometimes it's not enough. Sometimes it's too much. It's a very big, sudden, I don't know, I feel like push into independence that can be really scary for a lot of people. Not even talking about, I don't know, the disabled, neurodivergent aspect. I think that amplifies it. And for all of this to me, I don't know, we went to like a stupid art school, so it's hard for me to like gauge other schools, but I feel like I really didn't learn that much and it's just a piece of paper and a line I can now put after my name that makes me hireable. Maybe not because I went to a bad school. But it just feels like-

Chase:     Cancels each other out.

Courn:     Yeah, didn't work out for me but it just feels like this really privileged thing.

Chase:     Totally.

Courn:     I mean you go to school now you could suddenly get a job even though the degree isn't really relevant.

Chase:     Correct, correct!

Courn:     To like what you're doing like just having a degree gives you so many more opportunities in your career. And I think it's really frustrating to me excited I don't know I know people just college did not work out for them or it they went and they now have a bunch of debt and they didn't have to. Now they're in a job that did not require them to get a degree and they're just like, yeah, man, this was such a waste of time. I wish someone had told me about trade schools. I wish someone told me I could have went straight to that.

Chase:     Yeah, I wanted to do a trade school.

Courn:     Yeah, what would you have done?

Chase:     Ooh, at the time I don't know what I would have done but looking back I mean man like electricians make so much money and they have such an easy job, it's a lot of like apprenticeships and school-

Courn:     That sounds terrifying to me but yes!

Chase:    Well like it's such easy money can have it's easy like have your own business and do your own shit but-

Courn:     You could have been the queer electrician that would have been like a cool-

Chase:     Dude I feel like there's so many good queer like trade names!

Courn:     Like you could have been a nice like Tik-Tok star!

Chase:     Yeah I mean my cousin did like a little trade school at the Community College or he did like auto body like thing it was like 6 months of schooling.

Courn:     Oh that's like a short program!

Chase:     Yeah it's like a little tiny program got a job immediately made like really decent money just doing like body repair stuff yeah you know it's just like so nice because yeah I didn't realize like a monthly student loan payment of anywhere between what 250, $300 to like upwards of 5 and 600 dollars right depending on like the size of loan and all the things like you're selling that money out month over month over month for years. Like you're telling me you got to make a job or have a job that you make enough to have 5 to 600 dollars of disposable income to go to student loans and live your life comfortably and have fun money. Oh bruh. When people some people only make like you know a couple grand a paycheck, like that's not possible. So like that's not sustainable. So college is not attainable for everybody and I'm glad we're talking about it especially from the neurodivergent lens.

Courn:     Yeah well I just think it's like a big privilege. I think it's first even a privilege to assume that like everyone has the resources to go to college. That someone has someone who's going to actively.

Chase:     I didn’t!

Courn:     Yeah like support them have family that's gonna be like you need to go to college.

Chase:     I was the only and first to go to college in my family.

Courn:     Yeah and that's so big and it's just like that doesn't happen for everyone. It doesn't need to happen for everyone either like that just isn't achievable for everyone.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     I don't know a lot of disabled people can't go to college like it's can't be accommodated to them.

Chase:     Yeah you also brought about like resources and like grad prep and like kind of interview prep. What are your thoughts around just college actually giving like giving you more skills, rather than education and like you learn almost like behaviors and like systems that then propel you into jobs or maybe you, you network based on the school you go to and the alumni and like those connections because I feel like I've heard that argument that that's actually like the benefit of college, not the go to class and learn these things.

Courn:     Yeah, I mean I would argue that's definitely the benefit in a world that I feel like it is very nepotistic to get in a job you need to know someone, you need to be related to someone. Do I feel like we were taught that skill? No. I learned how to be a student and how to learn, which I love being a student and I love learning. That's a strength of mine. I'm great at absorbing information and learning new things, but that doesn't really apply to when you have a job because they don't want you just sitting around learning things they want you applying that knowledge.

Chase:     They want you to produce.

Courn:     And just producing, producing, and producing over and over again. So it's just weird to me. I just felt very ill-prepared just to work for the rest of my life after college.

Chase:     Yeah I mean it's like the little dream that most millennials were lied to, right? It's like get the degree, you'll get the job, and which I guess there was a small portion that that actually happened to and like there probably is some jobs that like that has a direct correlation to but like most of them don't. I mean does the degree I have directly correlate to like the field I work in and my current job? No.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     My graphic design degree does not apply to me being a fitness manager but I mean the path that kind of landed me here I guess and got me then connected to other things.

Courn:     Yeah I mean who's to say what was part of your journey or where you would be without it but some days I just feel so naive in the fact that like, I don't know, I work for myself no 1 of my clients knows where I went to school.

Chase:     They don't ask they don't check.

Courn:     No, I'm like I could have just been doing this. And it's just so stupid to me that I'm like, god, I paid off my student loans for so long. And I feel like I was in a very privileged position to be able to pay them off. But I still think about all the time, just like, man, I could have enjoyed my early 20s so much more had I not been paying $1,000 a month in my student loans. I was so aggressive paying my student loans like $1,500 a month. Half of my paycheck every month went to my student loans because they gave me so much freaking stress. My minimum payment was still like $600.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     And I don't even have that high of loans so I find it wild.

Chase:     Yeah. I'm really glad my sister didn't because at the like my younger sister was comparing or considering what to do and I was like if you want to go to college or go to like PCC Community College like just take a year off and work and just like live life for a bit and then think about inside to go. Like there's no pressure to go because I mean I came from a cult who discouraged college in general, but like none of my family had any savings had gone to college or any of the things. So I can also tell you that as a person who does a lot of interviews, I have not once checked and granted this is kind of like in the field so maybe fields you need to check. I've never looked up someone's degree to like fact-check-

Courn:     I don’t think anyone ever does like fact check!

Chase:     That's what I'm saying is, like you could just say like especially if it's in something's kind of small you, like a whole Portland you know Community College.

Courn:     Maybe don't lie on your resume that big, but.

Chase:     I would do it. I lied about a lot of stuff.

Courn:     I would always lie about that example. Like, give me an example where there was a hardship at work. What do you mean? I just got out of college.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     All I've worked at is a coffee shop. What do you want me to tell you when a customer, when I over steamed someone's milk, that's not relevant.

Chase:     You used whole milk instead of nonfat?

Courn:     I've never done that.

Chase:     Brevi.

Courn:     I did give someone a soy milk when they asked for normal milk.

Chase:     Could they tell?

Courn:     Nope. I know that's food mishandling, but it also was when I was like 14. So.

Chase:     Yeah they were making a bad peach. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, it's like, I feel like your life would have been dramatically different. I mean, we would have never met and if we didn't go to college.

Courn:     That's why we went to college so we could meet and we could make this podcast and have all of our neurotakes. Wow!

Chase:     Hot takes as neurodivergence.

Courn:     That was definitely worth it. Definitely worth all the debt.

Chase:     Gosh. But I mean you talk about traditional learning and the format of college, right? Like we didn't really have a ton of lectures in our school but I feel like I would have actually done a lot better with lectures. I'm really good at listening and taking notes.

Courn:     Oh god, I did not, you are?

Chase:     But like, yeah, it's a church thing. Church thing. I was really good at it. I learned from an early age how to do it. But I mean, like, it sucks because you like being a student. I love learning. I do not like college. And I don't like the setup of college. Like It's too stressful. It doesn't work for my brain. I need more breaks. I need more interactions. I need more one-on-one type stuff. But just sitting there and working quietly is just a nightmare for me. But who's to know that if it was non-traditional learning that I would do better, like we talked about maybe a trade school or something.

Courn:     Yeah maybe if you had like more I don't know more flexible paths of doing things. It was very 1 way. To me it was exciting just because I went to really small school and it felt like a continuation of that going to AI Portland. It was like the same thing. It was like really small classrooms. Teachers don't know what they're doing. You can just kind of like fuck around, do your work whenever. So like I don't know. I played around in college. I got all my work done but like I don't know. I was very unserious in class.

Chase:     Oh me too. Remember I was going into it being like I'm gonna get through Armageddon I don't need all this forever so I'm just trying to get this done, R.I.P.

Courn:     I'm like simultaneously every teacher loved and hated me because I did great work but then I'd also would like just be mean to them and sassy, they kind of deserved it.

Chase:     Oh yeah those teachers were trash or those professors were trash.

Courn:     Yeah this is a very specific one!

Chase:     Then do it.

Courn:     Why do federal loans gain interest while you're in school, this is something I don't understand but mine gained interest. I came out-

Chase:     Is that legal?

Courn:     I don't know, maybe that's why they gave me a refund. But for me, I don't know. I gained almost like $8,000, 12,000, close to that in interest the 3 years I went to school. So I came out and I was like my-

Chase:     Almost double?

Courn:     Yeah. Almost!

Chase:     What you, when it, oh my God.

Courn:     I think like the core balance was like 26. I got out of school it was like like almost like 36 and I was like what? I was like I didn't take out that much.

Chase:     That's wild.

Courn:     And I was like what do you mean they're allowed to do that? Like why are they even made why are they even allowed to put an interest rate on government loans? I genuinely don't understand. If the role is not to take money off you but to help you go to school, I understand private loans and I can only get approved for so much.

Chase:     Interest is for profit. We know that.

Courn:     I just find it weird if it's a government organization, I don't think they should be profiting off of people especially when they do have limits. Like FAFSA is super limiting. I can only take $6,000 out. So like that's all I could qualify for based on my parents' income, which is fine. If I'm only allowed to get 6,000 without, and I thought the interest rate would be super low, it's pretty much the same as all my private loans.

Chase:     Wow.

Courn:     I'm still salty about that.

Chase:     Well, even just like the lack of education around that and like understanding private loans, public loans, student aid, also if you got to pay back. Dude I just remember going to that meeting being like, I can do this? Oh my god, I could, okay yeah I'll do it. I got accepted into a college. Oh my god! False.

Courn:     Yeah. I think my other hot take is that I think most higher education also just preps you to be an employee, to be a successful employee, not to be like I don't know a successful business owner not to be an entrepreneur not to even like thrive or advance roles at your job, but just to like be a student, which is essentially just doing what someone tells you to do.

Chase:     It's an assembly line worker.

Courn:     Yes, which is weird because like I feel like you think someone's going to college or going like higher ed, you may think like oh white collar worker, that's not always the case and usually it is like-

Chase:     When you strip out the context, the rules are the same, it's a pyramid scheme!

Courn:     Like I did not feel like a white collar worker like yes, it wasn't as much physical labor, but I wouldn't even argue that because I was so fucking tired I was crunched over on my screen.

Chase:     I mean the mental bandwidth, like the mental load is exhausting not to say that blue collar is not any like mental work but it's like-

Courn:     I think both are equal in different ways and depending on the person too, 1 can impact 1 more than the either but yeah, just all feels like a scam to me, higher ed is just such a rip-off the fact that they make so much money off of that I feel this way about every system, health care government, like the primary goal is to make money off of you. It's not-

Chase:     To allow you to make more money.

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:     That's not at all what's happening.

Courn:     No.

Chase:     Not anymore. I mean back when college was like $500 or something ridiculous, right?

Courn:     Yeah, my dad paid off his school as he went to school and I was working a full-time job.

Chase:     Yes I was gonna say our parents did that or like what here like that generation I'd hear them like yeah, you just work for the summer pay off what-

Courn:     He like worked at like McDonalds and paid off most of his college. Like what?

Chase:     Yep, over the summer or like while he was in school yeah and that's how it should be and you should just be able to like work a small job, pay as you go, like pay that off but like you should be there to like actually immerse yourself and learn something or like any of the studies like I wouldn't mind doing that that'd be cool, it's like almost like a hyper fixation, like I'm just like hyper fixated on that but like that's not feasible with nowadays, cost of living.

Courn:     Definitely not.

Chase:     It’s a scam.

Courn:     Oh definitely!

Chase:     Yeah, it's a scam. I wonder what other ways you could have like learning, traditional or like collegiate learning collegiate level learning but like in a different setup, We'd have to completely probably abolish the system and start over, huh?

Courn:     Yeah. Take my master class.

Chase:     Gross.

Courn:     I feel like then that's what happened was then people just did highly privatized like classes that, oh, you can start your career after this and there's also I also have qualms with all that but yeah it's just weird when all the information is like out there but like when you also really need that structure like I think that's hard for me. I regret going to the school I went to, I don't regret going to college, I just wish I had gone to like-

Chase:     A real university?

Courn:     A public school. Yeah. And paid a lot less because the information was about the same. I just would have got guidance. I just think I need someone to help me. It's the idea of just like doing everything on my own is just too daunting.

Chase:     Hmmm.

Courn:     Like I don't know. And I feel that way as a freelancer all the time everything I just back myself to the holes where I'm like this is just too much sometimes I wish I just worked for someone else and they told me what to do because I get so easily overwhelmed by all the decisions and-

Chase:     Absolutely yeah every now and then I'm like I wish, I wish I had a desk job again to just like mindlessly clock in, clock out and make a paycheck.

Courn:     But then you remember how much you hated it. You only remember the good parts.

Chase:     Yeah, my body hated sitting for that long. I don't know how you all do it. Knee pain, hip pain. It was bad.

Courn:     I think about too, I don't know, all the kids like coming out, I don't know, 2020 too, like going to college and stuff and having to do everything masked. And like, I don't know, there's a big recession for jobs and things. A lot of like, I don't know, changes. And then just being thrown into the workforce. I don't know. That seems scary to me.

Chase:    Yeah. I mean there's a big push to talk about higher education and loan forgiveness with what Biden because that was like pandemic times.

Courn:     Yeah. I got approved for the initial 1, like 4 years ago.

Chase:     But I feel like there's like no talk about it anymore, right?

Courn:     Yeah cause it got denied.

Chase:     Yeah which, what the freak happened with that-

Courn:     I think it was like-

Chase:     2 people ruined it?

Courn:     Yeah yeah like a state governor too. It was like they just filed a thing and then it just fell apart.

Chase:     And like it didn't continue and I feel like again typical politics, especially like U.S. politics like do all the things for the clout and attention and then when it doesn't what time to like put boots to the ground, it's like no no just kidding you know and like no fulfillment on any of that.

Courn:     Yeah, that 1 actually disgusts me because they like sent out acceptance emails to people. Like at any point it would have been bad, but I'm like, I literally cried when I got that acceptance email and luckily it panned out for me, but that didn't pan out for probably the millions of other people who got those emails too. Oh you're eligible for student loan forgiveness. Oh a month later, JK.

Chase:     Someone, 1 person ruined it for everyone.

Courn:     And I guess that's how the government works.

Chase:     So literally capitalism at its finest.

Courn:     Keep paying your loans. We know COVID isn't over but guess what you have to keep paying them.

Chase:     With your really bad salary.

Courn:     Yeah, actually my hot take, and this is just on COVID stuff, is that the only reason COVID ended in the eyes of the government was to get us back into the workforce and make money off of us, even though they damn well know that rates have not gone down. Strains have not gotten any better. People are not dying at any less rates. And we're seeing so many complications of long COVID, but they just decided, okay, this is too much. It's too hard.

Chase:     Too much work to keep pretending, like keep enforcing these protocols.

Courn:     Yeah, because it just wasn't profitable.

Chase:     No, of course not.

Courn:     Everyone, even the whole CDC guidelines, even during, I feel like the height of yeah 2020, 2021 being like, oh take 2 days off when they know the incubation period is over a week, they’re like just take 2 days off go back to work. Insane. And now, I don't know, people think I'm a crazy person every time I talk about COVID now because the government has gaslit them. Every institution has gaslit them now into thinking that, oh, that's in the past. People act like you're being so like ridiculous for bringing it up, for being so fear-mongering and it's like, no. You're just uninformed.

Chase:     Yeah. And like, well, uninformed and or choosing ignorance.

Courn:     Yeah. I think it's a combination of both. I think a lot of people just don't know the rates, but what bothers me is people double down. Like I know medical professionals in my family, you tell them the rates, who just, oh, well, I'm a healthy person. Okay, that is like eugenics talk. Like when you literally say, okay, well, those people dying, they're not me. I don't care about them if they're not me. Cause I swear to God, as soon as someone you know dies of fucking COVID, you're going to be like, ooough!

Chase:     I'm pretty sure it's what like accelerated my grandma's passing.

Courn:     Oh yeah.

Chase:     Like, yeah.

I just read a new study that people are getting-

Chase:    She got COVID and dementia just like accelerated like crazy.

Courn:     People are getting really scared about dementia side effects because the biggest long COVID symptom whatever is like-

Chase:     Brain fog.

Courn:     Yep. And they're already seeing that in the first couple years that dementia patients are getting it earlier more intense. They think there's going to be a new wave of dementia early onset for a lot of people with COVID. People don't know the long-term complications.

Chase:     That’s wild. That's insane.

Courn:     It's actually terrifying to me. All that to say, if you can get the new Novavax or 2024-25 vaccine, you should do it right now because you are not protected. That's not how vaccines work. People think, oh, I got the original 14 years ago-

Chase:     It’s like the flu vaccine!

Courn:     Yes it's exactly like a flu vaccine, the previous ones do absolutely nothing So.

Chase:     Especially with all these new strains and stuff.

Courn:     Yeah, that's like literally the baseline thing you can do is go get a shot. People will still fight about that, “I don't like shots!” No one likes shots! Okay no one's like, yeah!

Chase:     Also no 1 likes wearing masks. So the more we just like clear this shit up, the sooner we clear it up, the less time we all got to wear it.

Courn:     Yeah. That's just my hot take. Everyone's like, you must love wearing masks. I fucking hate wearing masks. There is nothing more than a sensory nightmare for me, but guess what? I don't wanna fucking die. I don't want people around me to die because of me. That matters more. And if that doesn't to you, just say that. But don't make excuses.

Chase:     Go off.

Courn:     If your inconvenience is not worth it. Like-

Chase:     If you're a shitty person, just admit it.

Courn:     That's what I think. I think it's just like people want to gaslight me and other people into being like, oh, well, it's just not that big of a deal. It is. If you're wondering how people act during the AIDS crisis, this is how they act.

Chase:     Exactly this.

Courn:     Oh, it's not me. It's not my community. It doesn't fucking matter. Guess what millions of people died, millions of straight people fucking died of HIV It's the same fucking shit. It's even it just to this massive level. It's fucking terrifying. But when it's people, when it's people they don't care about or can easily forget, its old people, it’s disabled people, it’s immunocompromised people.

Chase:     Yeah, yeah.

Courn:     But I don't know plenty of healthy people are getting fucking long COVID and it's terrifying.

Chase:     And that's the part that scares me is like the long-term effects that we literally still don't know all the research behind and we're not gonna know.

Courn:     No. I think so much of my chronic illness and pain stuff that's like multiplied over the past few years. I feel like I've just got like a dead end with doctors and stuff.

Chase:     Yeah it's unexplainable.

Courn:     Yeah they're like we think you have hypermobile EDS but like some of your symptoms seem more intense. Like you might have lung problems and they’re like but I don't know why you would and it's just like no doctors have told me hey it might be long COVID but literally every person I have to talk to online in these spaces it's just like that sounds like textbook long COVID, like yeah.

Chase:     It needs to get talked about more.

Courn:     It's not normal to not be able, I don't know, to breathe normally anymore, to do like exercise and feel winded, to feel like shit all the time, to have low energy when you're doing the same things you've been doing for years, like that's not normal, for you. Aand that I don't know we have to accept our new realities but-

Chase:     But it's like those little things where you don't quite think it's like a flag or like oh it's a little odd but it's not enough to be like oh my god, I can't! It's like that but it's like just those tiny little things and that over time like builds up and the next thing you know you're like, wait I can't taste that nearly the same. Like I remember my taste was always messed up for a long time and like it probably still never recovered but you just have that like warped perception for long enough that it just becomes your reality. You don't even think about it being different anymore. It's black mirror stuff.

Courn:     What happens like incrementally too and I think it happens after you're sick too it's hard to know like if you ever recouped to full but the brain fog thing always gets me because I've been saying for like almost 5 years now I've been calling it mushy mind and I used to say it was because I got antidepressants because they said that was a side effect, brain fog. And then I got off of antidepressants a year and a half ago.

Chase:     It’s the vid!

Courn:     And I'm like, wow, my brain is actually so much more mushy and I can't think in the ways I used to before. And I'm like-

Chase:     Well, it's another way to control people and like the classes and create divisions, I'm sure, right? Because like people who can afford the care and treatment for it and protect themselves from it, like they don't give a damn if other people do because it just creates less comfort. It's like more people to feed in and dump money into the systems to make them money, put them in more positions of power like we look at elections and where all of that is at like-

Courn:     Yeah I mean they don't want you taking time off work, they don't know they don't want you raising health care stuff, they want-

Chase:     Yeah they stop giving care they stop giving like PTO for COVID and all that stuff. Remember, like you could like basically have the day off after you got your COVID vaccine cause you felt like crap.

Courn:     Now they're like, good luck.

Chase:     You wanna use sick time?

Courn:     Okay. Going on a 2 week vacation and flying international. You should go into the office the next day.

Chase:     Yeah, we expect you to be here producing again.

Courn:     Actually insane to me. I'm just like the lack of precautions people have at airports actually drives me insane. Even just because airports are already gross.

Chase:     I would say they're already disgusting.

Courn:     I always would get sick after airports and guess what? I don't anymore after masking. Which is like, weird that science works you know, hot take? It's just a weird time to be human. I don't know.

Chase:     I agree.

Courn:     It's absolutely like, I just don't know, if there's just this dissonance on how I'm supposed to go to work and be a normal human being. And then also simultaneously on my phone, I'm scrolling and just seeing children blown up, people smushed, people's body parts. And then people act like I'm making a big deal for being like, I can't, I don't know how to function when all this shit is happening. How can you, what's the word, silo it into different things and dissociate? Cause it seems like most people just choose to ignore that stuff or they're just not seeing it. Like I had a long talk with my partner about this talking about like, cause they don't see that shit on their feeds. I do. I see a lot of people in Palestine dying.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     And it's actually the grossest thing.

Chase:     Well, the algorithm is getting, yeah, the algorithm is getting like really intense to where like even just I'll notice for like a couple days if I like interact with some stuff, I don't even see half the other stuff that I like want to follow. And it sort of like filters that quickly to the top. So I mean, yeah, if you're not going out of your way to like see it and be exposed to it, like it's just really never going to see it.

Courn:     Yeah. It's really easy to ignore. And it's-

Chase:     Oh, totally.

Courn:     It's scary. I don't know. I just feel like I have a hard time. I can't even like talk with some friends and stuff because they just want to act like everything's normal. And I'm just like, or they're like, oh, yeah, I heard about that thing that happened in Lebanon. So sad. I'm like, why are you talking like that? Why are you acting like that was an accident? No, Israel literally like did a terrorist attack and detonated pagers among civilians. Like that is literally so insane. Anyone could have opened them and anyone did. Random people just fucking died and people are acting like, oh, that's just something that happens. Oh, it's international, so it doesn't have to deal with me. No, we probably supplied the shit for it.

Chase:     Yeah, I don't think people realize how like, how much America has their grimy hands in this situation. Like really bad, but even then they're just kind of like, well, it doesn't affect my day to day life.

Courn:     Like it does and it should!

Chase:     It should.

Courn:     It really should. But I think that's the thing that gets me especially with the US is that we are literally supplying the bulk of like arms and money to israel to do these things and then acting like we aren't even though we are I mean and-

Chase:     I mean like, oh my gosh palestine, no that's so bad!

Courn:     Yeah it just bothers me I mean we're almost coming up on a year now and it's insane I'm glad that public opinion I think I read somewhere that because originally it was like around 15 percent of people believed that we should reach a ceasefire now it's closer to like 60, which is a pretty dramatic uptic,k but I'm like man it took a year of people fucking dying.

Chase:     Yeah. Yeah yeah, like I don't know you put that in the context like people have never lived I have never lived in a place where I was like afraid of dying going to a place now obviously, it's getting a little intense but like yeah, like people are not fearful like to go to work and like die on their way to work just randomly, just randomly. Like you could, you could be in like maybe a safer area and just be like, but just like big old bomb takes out the whole city, like blows it up, catches it on fire. Everything's destroyed, unlivable. All your food's gone. Like your clothes are gone, you know, like put that stuff into context, think about it.

Courn:     Well, it's such a dissonance because I feel like people-

Chase:     Which is a privilege.

Courn:     Yeah, people hear that and they're just like, oh, what can I do? And it's just like, I don't know, literally anything just fucking-

Chase:     Repost takes no time.

Courn:     Just fucking care. Like I just people just like get into this like I don't know side of like, oh if I can't do anything meaningful, on the level of the government. There's no point in doing anything.

Chase:     That's fair, because I feel like I get in this mindset of like almost just like hopelessness though. Because I'm like, yeah, we're doing all the things people are doing all the things like nothing's freaking changing so I do sympathize in that way like my oh nothing's changing! But like I guess it's better than doing nothing.

Courn:     I mean there's little wins.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     Imean there's little wins here and there I don't know the UN declaring that it is a genocide declaring that Israel has no rights to be in Palestine. Who's going to enforce that? No one. But having that documented is such a big deal. I wish that didn't mean that thousands of people had to die to get that documentation. But I mean, there's little wins every day, but I think it's that false sense of just like, I don't know that fallacy if you can't do the biggest thing then you should do nothing, but I don't think people realize that like-

Chase:     All the little things.

Courn:     Yeah, every social change started on a micro level, that's how it happens and unfortunately especially in the U.S. If something has to happen at a government level the majority of the people have to agree they want it to happen and that literally works. Happened with gay rights, happened with gay marriage, we're even seeing that happen with the ceasefire deal now that the US is saying oh we want a ceasefire deal. They would not have said that a year ago.

Chase:     Mmm, interesting.

Courn:     It's just like we have to get public opinion there and unfortunately that is a lot of groundwork but for a lot of people all individually doing that, it makes a difference.

Chase:     Is there any tie to the cost of living in your opinion and in your very well-educated brain.

Courn:     I wouldn't say very well-educated.

Chase:     Any tie to like cost of living and all this stuff going up like that tied with what's going on?

Courn:     I mean, I am not someone who's like an expert on economics.

Chase:     True, neither of us are.

Courn:     But I can tell you that we are actively in a recession.

Chase:     Yeah that's what I'm yeah.

Courn:     Prices are going up, I don't know what that like has to do directly with the wars and stuff because, the genocides we are funding-

Chase:     I don't know, how like funding for that stuff comes from like if it's government, private, or how a combo, but I'm like there's got to be some kind of tie but also yeah, the fact that we're in a recession no one's talking about it-

Courn:     I mean I think-

Chase:     Like similar to the 2008 recession?

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     Oh my.

Courn:     I mean when we think about I don't know even like Congo and the fact that we need all these minerals and stuff. I think that's directly tied to it, obviously into US consumerism. We're the ones that are getting all these minerals for our phones and shit. We want that area to be in disarray. Same thing with Sudan. We have so much investment into making sure they are in a constant state of political disarray so we can get cheap products. So we can have influence over there. People don't understand that, that is in the US's best interest to have some places in conflict.

Chase:     And that is the literal world politics.

Courn:     Yes. And it's not like, oh, it happened like that. No, it's intentional.

Chase:     Wow.

Courn:     We assassinate other people's leaders. We plant people. We purposely create chaos in countries.

Chase:     Purposely go in and like destroy systems and infrastructure.

Courn:     Our economies are reliant on us taking advantage of other countries. And if we can't take advantage, if we can't take advantage of Congo, guess what, guys, you can't have your iPhone at the price you want.

Chase:     True, the price your iPhone's gonna triple. And that would cause literal chaos in the US.

Courn:     So that's why we're allowing people to die of famine. We're allowing people to be assaulted.

Chase:     Because we want to have the comfort of the consumer.

Courn:     Yes.

Chase:     The more you know.

Courn:     Yeah and that's like almost everything in the US.

Chase:     That's like basics, that's not like-

Courn:     Yeah it's a very delicate but also simultaneously violent system.

Chase:     Funny how they never teach you that in school.

Courn:     Yeah it's very violent. It's all it's all based on that we have to exploit other people's resources and that's how it's always been making money and you think it doesn't have to do with why the milk price is going up or why you can't afford to live but it's all fucking connected.

Chase:     So at what point is it the cost of living and at what point does it like make your life so uncomfortable that you actually do something? Does it have to get that uncomfortable? Can you just do something before it gets that bad?

Courn:     I don't know.

Chase:     Rhetorical question.

Courn:     Yeah, I mean, I think it's always gonna be comfortable for like, I don't know, the 5% of people who are making, 1% really, making the decisions for everyone. So as long as they're fine, which they'll always be, doesn't really matter.

Chase:     Not as much.

Courn:     It feels like talking to a wall with certain people about it, which is kind of everyone lately. I don't know, there's a lot of black and white thinking.

Courn:     And I get that, I'm fucking autistic. I'm the fucking king of black and white thinking.

Chase:     But I feel like that's what makes it complex though, is it's not black and white.

Courn:     Yeah, and I think that's what makes it such an interesting topic for me and not in a way to like trivialize, be like, oh this is just a think piece for me, I'm gonna be a devil's advocate.

Chase:     Well morality is never black and white.

Courn:     No, but it's just like it's actually a, these problems are so complex, there's no easy solution to them, but apathy is not the solution and I do know that. I know just saying it sucks so I'm not gonna partake when you have the least to lose from that is privilege. Because if people were just completely apathetic about politics and be like oh, it's just politics it's, it's the lives of so many people around you like, people are dying literally every day and just being able to say I can turn off my phone, I don't care about it is such a privilege.

Chase:     I think about that with the privilege like sometimes seeing like really upsetting videos, trans violence, any of the things, like we go on about which topic and like I think about them like I could just scroll past this like I let it go and I don't see it. But like just sit there and watch it and like feel really almost like purposely upset and dysregulated, like it reminds you that the shit is going on all the time like-

Courn:     Correct.

Chase:     And especially the way our pages and algorithms are fed like the more you skip past it the less you're gonna see it so like if you don't actually interact or do something to purposely like see that stuff and purposely become uncomfortable, like it's never gonna change. Be comfortable being uncomfortable.

Courn:     Correct. You don’t have to be comfortable, but you need to get used to being uncomfortable, that is a normal thing-

Chase:     Expose yourself to some stuff.

Courn:     Yeah, you regularly should feel uncomfortable, unfortunately like-

Chase:     Reminds me of all the stuff in Maui and just like how that’s a freaking state. There's like literally state rights in the United States and like, still have gotten no aid, no changes, but buildings haven't been built up. Jobs are not coming back, but like the tourists can come freaking watch people live on the beach. Like you can come surf and go sit on your stupid little hotel on the beach that's been burnt down.

Courn:     That to me is kind of a litmus test of people like understanding stuff. When I've told, I feel like I know you put me in my place and I decided I was like I'm never fucking gonna go to Hawaii again and I'm like really glad that I don't know you put that wisdom on me and just educated me.

Chase:     You shouldn't be going!

Courn:     No, I just need someone to tell me that, but it's really frustrating to me when I've told friends like, hey, this is why you shouldn't go to Hawaii, and they're like, well...

Chase:     Doesn't affect me!

Courn:     I don't care enough. Like if you won't change your vacation destination for someone else. Like that just tells me how little you are willing to invest in, I don't know, the liberation of oppressed people. Like you can't even do that.

Chase:     It's selfish.

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     It's selfish.

Courn:     That's such an entry level thing. Like literally go vacation any fucking where else. Like, what do you mean? There's like a list. It's like the top 3 places. You're not supposed to fucking go-

Chase:     And like Hawaii's probably-

Courn:     It was like Israel. It's like Dubai, and whatever. There's a few other areas around there. Yeah, it's like Hawaii It was like there's no ethical place. There's no ethical way to go to these places.

Chase:     Zero, and I can't tell you enough to like yeah, but I mean even just like Puerto Rico. I was watching some videos on that and how like fucked that is and like US territory. They're kind of just caught in the middle, where they get no benefits and no protections, but they're just forced to stay there.

Courn:     Guam's like that as well, too.

Chase:     Yeah, and there's actually a ton of territories like that, that I mean I don't even know about as a US citizen who's been educated my whole life in the US. Are you kidding me, they don't tell you that stuff!

Courn:     You literally text me, like did yeah they're like I didn't know guam was like part of the US!

Chase:     Because it was in the the convention the Democratic Convention all these like and I was like what?

Courn:     I probably know that because my partners family’s from Guam.

Chase:     Yeah but I mean even then like nobody talks about what's going on there and how like that stuff again is not it's not affecting you day to day no one's gonna go to vacation at Guam. Like oh imagine that your little, your little home is disrupted. But it's just the privilege to turn the eye is so real. And I would encourage anybody listening to this to hopefully feel uncomfortable by some of the stuff we're talking about, truly. And maybe start consuming some stuff that makes you feel a little uncomfortable and do something off of that. Like it doesn't have to be the big grandiose donations and like volunteering a year of your life but like damn 1 day, 4 hours, hundred bucks, 50 bucks, 10 bucks?

Courn:     That's all anyone is ever asking. I think that's a thing, people just have that knee-jerk reaction I think when they get called out on something that’s like, “oh I'm just trying my best, you know and-”

Chase:     Guess what, your best still wasn't good enough, neither was my parents, move on, bad argument!

Courn:     No one's asking you to go devote your life to go you know fight the fires in Maui like, just don't fucking go there!

Chase:     Literally don't go, you don't you have to donate, you don't have to go. If you're gonna go how about you go volunteer and rebuild some stuff?

Courn:     Yeah.

Chase:     How about you go volunteer and feed some people who are starving.

Courn:     Yeah but we're giving them tourism, Chase!

Chase:     Don't you start-

Courn:     That was quote what a friend told me, but there but they have tourism!

Chase:     The’ve never asked for tourism. They've literally not they've asked for no tourism, for decades.

Courn:     Also imagine forcing someone into that system and then being like, you're relying on us, you need, because we made you relying on the system because we took away every other system!

Chase:     This is america!

Courn:     Yeah we're not giving you any other economy than treating us so be thankful for that!

Chase:     Again it's like you mentioned like American economics and consumerism thrives on other people being exploited.

Courn:     Get out of here haoles! Is that the right word ?

Chase:    Caucasians!

Courn:     Are haloes the white people in Hawaii?

Chase:    Yes.

Courn:     Yeah, why is there even a word for that? Get out, go, you shouldn't be there.

Chase:     Yeah, I mean, the argument is, is it even a real word or is it a made up word?

Courn:     I met a man who identified, like he said, oh, I'm a haole, because his family lived in Hawaii, He was white.

Chase:     Yeah.

Courn:     And I was like, I don't think that makes it better. I don't think, I think you should not.

Chase:     What's the, like there's, I mean there's a ton of discussion around that, but like a lot of people will just say like it's the attitude and the entitlement that comes with it. Because the reality is there's going to be people who are white that are born there. Can't help it, but like it's how you interact with the community, that could be going for any foreigner in any country or any thing because Hawaii is a country people! It's its own independent country, it's not a freaking state.

Courn:     Don't make weird travel content that's like, oh white people should come here!

Chase:     No!

Courn:     I feel like there's been a real weird rise of like really specific travel content. They’ll be like, go to Japan. It's great for me, a white person, because they all think I'm hot. And I'm like, y'all are so unhinged.

Chase:     Unhinged. That's feral.

Courn:     Stop like fetishizing other countries and shit. Go home.

Chase:     I hate that.

Courn:     No 1 wants you. You don't learn the language. You don't do anything.

Chase:     Just roll, like swap roles for a sec. Put yourself in other people's shoes and just like imagine what it would feel like to be on the other side of that just, just role play a little bit, not saying you have to go do it, but like think about it and like if that gives you any bad feelings and discomfort and just like ick-

Courn:     I feel, I don't know-

Chase:     Maybe you should do something then!

Courn:     There’s literally examples of that because I feel like you know there was like a big thread that was popular it was just like oh, asian people taking photos in American malls because they think they're really funny and they think the super stores are really funny people like oh isn’t that so weird, I'm like what do you mean you guys do the same fucking thing-

Chase:     About all the cutesy little things in japan!

Courn:     You go to a fucking cat cafe, you go to a combini, and you're like oh look, they have so many types of ramen, you do the same fucking shit but guess what there's a power imbalance on your side, so it's much worse, it's completely different but-

Chase:     Gosh that's wild, I didn't realize that yeah I didn't think about the role reverse.

Courn:     I actually hate it. I think the whole the fact that fucking Oppenheimer won an award-

Chase:     Ughhh!

Courn:     And people fucking argue, whatever that that movie shows how bad it was-

Chase:     I can not faint out of my chair hard enough!

Courn:     I actually cannot stand it because it comes up a lot. Cause I'm in a lot of like Asian social media circles where they talk about…I don't care what that movie is showing, making that movie and profiting off of it as white people, about how a bomb disproportionately affected Japanese people is fucking weird, doesn't matter. You even naming it after him is so fucking weird, who cares if he was conflicted. He still fucking did it!

Chase:     Same thing with like it's what is him infantilizing, like a lot it's like the joker what is it when like white men's like violence is just like-

Courn:     Normalized?

Chase:     Normalized. I mean, yeah.

Courn:     I just think I my hot take will ever be that if you ever make a movie or something on a super traumatic real event that happened, if the money isn't directly going to people that were impacted, I mean everyone at the high level who's making the movie needs to be someone who's impacted. The only people that have business making a movie about fucking Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb is Japanese people, respectfully and making money off it. Same thing with true crime, like it's just so fucking weird all these movies too that I feel like we're seeing, I don't know, about like Civil War about like enslavement and stuff when they are led by white narratives like who is profiting off of this?

Chase:     White people!

Courn:     At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if your narrative is shining light on something. If you were profiting from the trauma of people of color, it's not right.

Chase:     It's appropriation. Like you're still just using somebody else's culture and like life and belonging as a way for you to make profit and not actually give back to them. Like, imagine if every time you bought a fake green grass hula skirt that like even just a dollar went to Hawaiians.

Courn:     That's what I'm saying.

Chase:     Can you imagine?

Courn:     Yeah, none of that shit goes to them.

Chase:     Grass skirts, such a lie.

Courn:     My fun fact is that most Chinese fortune cookies, they're all like 98% are made by this company in like California, who is Chinese owned.

Chase:     So does that make it bad if it's Chinese owned?

Courn:     No, that's good because it's their thing.

Chase:     Yeah, it's in. Yeah.

Courn:     They’re like we own it. We make it.

Chase:     Yeah. is that actually a Chinese cookie. Is that actually a thing that like real?

Courn:     I don't. I don't know . Who knows?

Chase:     You know, my most traumatizing thing that I had to realize as an adult was not okay was that I wore a coconut bra as a child. That's like-

Courn:     I mean, if anyone's going to wear it, you're allowed to.

Chase:     No, that's not a real thing though.

Courn:     But it's not. No, it's not. Yeah.

Chase:     It's just gives me so much ick. I hate my parents for that, for allowing that.

Courn:     I think the fact that you just didn't have the awareness, I think is what hurts.

Chase:     And that people, I was surrounded by people who thought that was okay.

Courn:     Cause it's like 1 thing, I don't know if you're trying to take it back or like make an artistic point.

Chase:     Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Courn:     But you were just a kid being forced to wear something.

Chase:     Thinking this was what I was supposed to do. And like the people around me told me that's what I'm supposed to do for my own culture who aren't even part of it. I hate that.

Courn:     I dressed up as Mulan multiple times and that was not cool. And I think about that a lot. I was Asian but not that kind of Asian.

Chase:     You don't want to go as Mulan for Halloween?

Courn:     No.

Chase:     It's okay. I'll go as Lilo. Moana.

Courn:     Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. I think you should go as Maui cuz of the tattoo!

Chase:     Cause of the tattoo! Actually no there's gotta be something more adjacent that I'm actually not that I would go as.

Courn:     Yeah that's too close, you need something that's like off.

Chase:     I'm gonna go as Raya, the dragon.

Courn:     I think you should go as Aladdin.

Chase:     Okay, on that note, we gotta end that man. Jesus.

Chase:     Alright, bye.

Courn:     Bye.

Chase:     Hey folks, a quick disclaimer here. Courn and I speak directly from our own experiences, and while we try our best to amplify marginalized voices and present accurate information, the thoughts expressed here are definitely not a reflection of all neurodivergent, AAPI, or queer folks. So, if you have any suggestions, comments, or thoughts, feel free to email us at hello@neurotakespod.com. Thanks!